Error Other | PCGS, NGC, or ANACS for Error Coin Grading?

[Guest]

I'm finally going to send out my 1922 No D Lincoln Cent and 1924D Lincoln cent with a die dent error to be graded. PCGS, NGC, or ANACS seem to be the top 3 grading companies. However, I'm not sure which grading company would be best.

From what I understand to use PCGS or NGC you need to have a coin dealer submit the coins for you.

With ANACS you can send the coins to them directly.

So what are the pros and cons among these 3 companies for grading error coins?

Another question is how much do I insure the coins for during shipping when I'm not sure of the grading?

If I've estimated the grading correctly and the coins is not altered, the 1922 No D would be worth between $375 and $560 retail.

The 1924D is worth a minimum of $115 retail without the error. I'm not sure what extra value this error would have.

So what say you all?

SAN

1922No D




1924D with Die Dent Error

[thecentcollector]

I can tell you right now that such a minor variety on a sought-after semi-key coin will *not* bring any additional premium.

As for the 22D, is this the same coin that got discussed in detail some time back and was concluded to be a "Weak D", not a "No D"? If you want a personal opinion, this coin is worth whatever the going rate is for a 22D in it's shape. I'm not going to get into that discussion any further here, because it *will* create a firestorm.

As for grading companies:

PCGS - Great for high-end coins
NGC - Great for Collector coins/high-end
ANACS - Great for varieties

[SAN]

The only consensus that was reached regarding the 22D was that it needed to be authenticated.

If the coin has not been altered it may very well be graded as a No D, as I can't see a trace of a mintmark under a microscope. For the record, PCGS has graded 22D weak reverse Die Pair #1 pennies as No D. They have several photos on their website as such.

I do realize that even if the coin is not declared to be altered, they could also declare it inconclusive because of the damage in the mintmark area. So the results of the grading will be a crapshoot.

SAN

[pman860507]

I actually can see the D.

I would follow thecentcollector advice.

[liveandievarieties]

Really depends on what your intentions for the coins are. The 1922-D is a weak D. There's nothing to disagree about, the die crack on the reverse can be seen at arm's length. As Andrew pointed out, there's no premium associated with a minor anomaly on a semi-key like your '24-D, but it is an attractive coin.

If you were looking to maximize their value for resale purposes, the 1922-D might bring as much as $80 if slabbed as a weak D. On the retail market, your 24-D is a $100 coin in or out of plastic, but you'd have an easier time getting that price when slabbed.

[SAN]

I actually can see the D.

You got a great imagination. I wouldn't be so quick to make a proclamation based on a photo. What you thought was a D soon disappears with a different light orientation.

I have the benefit of looking at the penny directly from many angles and also under the microscope and I can't see a trace of a D. My prediction is that if the 22D is not declared to be altered or inconclusive, it will be graded as a No D.

I realize that some grading companies only consider pennies struck from Die Pair #2 to be No-D, but that's another discussion.

SAN

[thecentcollector]

You got a great imagination. I wouldn't be so quick to make a proclamation based on a photo. What you thought was a D soon disappears with a different light orientation.

I have the benefit of looking at the penny directly from many angles and also under the microscope and I can't see a trace of a D. My prediction is that if the 22D is not declared to be altered or inconclusive, it will be graded as a No D.

I realize that some grading companies only consider pennies struck from Die Pair #2 to be No-D, but that's another discussion.

SAN

First off, we've only been provided the poor-quality photos seen above. Secondly, no proper assessment can be made based upon said pictures. Yes, you have the benefit of looking at the penny directly from "many angles", but the point still stands, we're making assumptions about a coin we can barely see. If you're so confident that it is what it is, then send it off to a grading company, and we'll gladly review their assessments. If I were you, I'd wholesale it to someone that shares your affinity for the variety, and hang on to the TPG slabbing costs. Again, just my opinion.

Die pair #2 is the only *true* No-D pairing. The rest are just grease-filled dies, that (to me) should not bring much (if any) of a premium. I'd pay more for a clear, earlier die state 22-D, than an MS grade greaser. Aside, that's just my opinion.

[simonm]

Alright, lets all take a deep breath. I don't think anyone wants this to escalate to the point where insults are made.

Andrew brings up a good point regarding the assessment of the coin based on the pictures, which aren't of optimal quality, and can make attribution by photos frustrating or even impossible.

Everyone entitled to their opinion. When someone mentions that they see the mintmark on the coin, there's no need to say

You got a great imagination. I wouldn't be so quick to make a proclamation based on a photo. What you thought was a D soon disappears with a different light orientation.

How are we supposed to know that it disappears when looked at from a different angle? If this is so, maybe take pictures from that angle to prove your point, because as of right now, all opinions are valid. I guess the way to settle this is to send it in and see what it gets labeled as, but as you said, sometimes PCGS grades a weak D as a No D. Therefore, that may not be as reliable as we hope. I am not educated enough on the 1922 "No D" to give an opinion on the coin, but the people that have posted here so far, especially Chris who has been in the coin business for more time than I have been alive, really know what they are talking about, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what they say.

Rant over. TL;DR: we need better pics to be sure, no insults please, everyone is entitled to opinions.

[mustbebob]

I am watching this thread. Let's just keep it civil. Good info trading hands here, and solid but opinionated responses.

[liveandievarieties]

This is a black and white issue guys- similar to the assertion that a 1955 DDO #2 might be slabbed as the big one because its a DDO.

There is only one die pair that is certified as a No D, that is not this coin. The coin in question is a Weak D and will be certified by any of the 3 TPGs as such- "1922-D Weak D". There is no room for argument here, it simply is what it is.

If still in question, please indeed prove us wrong and get it slabbed, until then going round and round is silly, I have better things to do.

[Brad]

Just for clarification:

ANACS will only certify Die 2 as a "NO D". For Die 1,3, and 4 they will use "Weak D".

NGC and PCGS will not specify a Die, and will certify Die 2 as "No D Strong Reverse". For Die 1, 3, and 4 they will either certify them as "Weak D" or "No D Weak Reverse".

The coin in question will most likely be certified as "Weak D", but you may get lucky. Looks like Die 1 to me for sure.

[SAN]

There is only one die pair that is certified as a No D, that is not this coin. The coin in question is a Weak D and will be certified by any of the 3 TPGs as such- "1922-D Weak D". There is no room for argument here, it simply is what it is.

http://www.pcgs.com/Prices/PriceGuid...(Wheat+Reverse)

Please note the category: PCGS #2540 1922 No D Weak Reverse. This is NOT die pair 2 and they call it NO D!

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinImages.aspx?s=2540

In particular, this one shows the Die Pair #1 crack on the reverse and it's classified as a No D Weak Reverse:

http://caimages.collectors.com/coinfacts/large/15726510.jpg

I assume that PCGS is one of the 3 TPGs that you are referring to.

There is no room for argument that PCGS recognizes die pairs other than #2 as No D.

SAN

[pman860507]

He didn't say they don't. All he said was that die #2 was the only one that is always no d. Die #1 can be either a weak d or a no d.

In the last image (not your coin) but the one you just posted you can clearly see that there is indeed no d on it so it was labeled correct.

I still think your coin is a weak d. If you strongly think that its a no d then please send it in. And let us know the outcome.

This bickering back and fourth is not.getting anyone anywhere.

Good luck.

Let us know what the tpg think.

[jcuve]

Posting coins on the forum asking for opinions, will do just that, garner opinions. If one is so certain of the outcome, then I am puzzled as to why it was even posted in the first place. All the forum users see are photos of coins and can only make a conscientious, yet subjective, analysis on those photos. That has happened, yet those views have somehow been deemed invalid by OP. A lot of good points have been made and I think we'll just have to wait for the outcome of a TPG submission.

[liveandievarieties]

I thought the 1922-D was going to be slabbed half a year ago...