Error Other | Circular die scratches or Lathe lines?

[jay4202472000]

I found a 1982 LD Copper cent with thin, raised lines that have a circular pattern on the reverse. I still haven't found a coin with lathe lines yet to compare to. There aren't any listed on errorvariety.com, but there is a link to a 1982 with circular die scratches on the obverse & reverse. There are some stains on the obverse that may be throwing me off, but the scratches/lines on the obverse of my coin don't look concentric or radial to the center. Could these maybe be lathe lines?

[jay4202472000]

Here's one more.

[liveandievarieties]

While somewhat concentric, I think Mike Diamond may say those are from a polishing wheel. The lathe lines I've seen on cents are perfectly concentric- they match each other exactly in shape, depth and strength.

BUT- I'm certainly not an authority on this subject. There are several other members with more experienced opinions than mine.

[coppy]

Yeah, I tend to agree with Chris here... abrassion lines from circular wheel.



WARNING: Not An Expert... Proceed With Caution.

[jay4202472000]

That's what I thought. While slightly different from the one on errorvariety.com, the gist is the same. They just don't look "perfect" enough. Thanks guys. I really want to find a coin with lathe lines, but I didn't want to talk myself into one that isn't.

[coop]

I believe they are lathe lines. They flow over the devices. If they were from polishing, then just the fields would be affected.

[Scott99]

Im looking on my phone so cant see much but the second picture certainly makes me think lathe lines as well but will look on my computer when I get off work. :-)

[Maineman750]

These are scratches and here is an example from Jason http://www.errorvariety.com/Lathe-lines/82P1cDS01.html

[Scott99]

Finally home to actually see the photo... I retract my original opinion and going with die scratches as well. On my phone they didn't appear polygonal as they do now.

[mikediamond]

As Coop says, the circular lines appear on both the field and the design, and with equal strength. This would seem to eliminate circular die scratches. The lines would have had to be on the blank working die. So, in the absence of any other possibilities, I'd have to go with lathe marks.

[Maineman750]

Mike, I'll disagree for two reasons besides the lack of symmetry:
Why can't scratches get into the fields ? We are talking about a wire brush.
Why can't scratches be on a die blank just as lathe lines, after all, they do polish the lathe lines off.

[coppy]

Mike, I'll disagree for two reasons besides the lack of symmetry:
Why can't scratches get into the fields ? We are talking about a wire brush.
Why can't scratches be on a die blank just as lathe lines, after all, they do polish the lathe lines off.

Exactly my thoughts also.
Also wondering, back in 1982-1983 did they use a different, more harsh polishing method to remove the lathe lines off... one that left abrasion marks on the die blanks and therefore could have ended up also on the coins' devices?

[jay4202472000]

I'll get a couple more pics in a little while & maybe they will rule out one or the other.

[coop]

The lathe lines are so deep in certain areas of the stock material. The flow all across the area that the die will be hubbed. The Hubbing doesn't erase/remove these lines and they show up on the fields and the devices of the die. It they had polished the die surface before the hubbing took place they would have erased these lathe lines. But they missed that step with this die.

Another even that confuses me is that during the strike on coins, the rolling lines on the metal of planchets still show. Something else I've wondered as to why?

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/coop49/Planchet_Rolling_Marks.jpg

[coppy]

It they had polished the die surface before the hubbing took place they would have erased these lathe lines. But they missed that step with this die.

Coop, what if this polishing of the die blank(to erase the lathe lines) left circular abrasion marks, from say, a circular polishing wheel?
For example... maybe in 1982 they accidently used a more coarse polishing brush.