Error Die Clash/Break | 1969-D radical die clash

[tomfiggy]

I found this today. Too bad it's been damaged.

[Frank]

[tomfiggy]

After further inspection I have found a raised D mint mark, and a 81 on the reverse. They are not incuse. What does that mean?

[stoneman227]

This appears to be a garage job. The damage is consistent with another cent placed on top of your coin then struck. The rim is damaged where the reverse image is and the date appears to be mashed in the right spots . This is true with the face also.
What does the reverse look like ?
It does make you think , most of these try and duplicate a double struck. This is actually the way a 180 degree clash would look.

John

[jfines69]

Are all of those in relief??? I am unable to tell for sure... My old age With the 81D on the rev I also believe this to be a garage job!!!

[tomfiggy]

All the features are raised. None are incuse as would be the case with a vice job. If it was impressed all the features would be incuse. The O, United, and the memorial are all raised in the field. The 81, and D MM on the reverse are raised in the field, as well the 1 goes UNDER the CA of America. The letters in America would be smashed, or imprinted but they are not. The date is not smashed by the clash either. The date has some PSD but not from the clash which is underneath the date.

[Frank]

Wow, the plot thickens!

Shouldn't the mint mark be facing the other way as well? My face is going to freeze in a quizzical look if I try to figure it out and longer I think...

[tomfiggy]

Wow, the plot thickens!

Shouldn't the mint mark be facing the other way as well? My face is going to freeze in a quizzical look if I try to figure it out and longer I think...

I took some more pics to try and show the 3 dimensionality of the features. All the features of the "clash" are obtuse. I will submit these pics for your enjoyment :-)

[willbrooks]

Ask yourself this question. Is it possible for a mint error to be made whereby features from a 1969 die and a 1981 die end up on the same coin?

[onecent1909]

Ask yourself this question. Is it possible for a mint error to be made whereby features from a 1969 die and a 1981 die end up on the same coin?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[tomfiggy]

If someone had a press and some dies they might be able to do this? Look at the O on the tip of the vest. It's as high as the bust. Time travelers ? It sure is cool!

[GrumpyEd]

If someone had a press and some dies they might be able to do this?

But, if they had some real dies the reverse die would not be mirrored like that.

This appears to be a garage job.

I agree!!!!

This is actually the way a 180 degree clash would look.

It is right for being mirrored but a clash would raise the lettering from the rev die on the obv die so the letters (from the clash) would then be incuse when looking at the coin it made.



Just looking at the obv I look at this way.
If it was made by normal soft dies (you can look up soft dies) then it also won't be mirrored.
If it was struck over an already struck cent then neither image would be mirrored.
If it was sandwiched in a vice it will be mirrored but the rev on the obv won't be raised.

With that in mind, I don't see a good explanation of how it could be made at a mint.
But it also seems not to fit the common ways of it being made out of the mint.

A few things to look for are:

Is either image possibly clear glue? (it can be hard to notice since you see the copper color through it)
Is the diameter slightly off, like can it easily fit like a normal coin in a whittman folder not tight? (bigger size indicates squeezing)
Is it possible that what you see as incuse/raised is not what you think you see? (it can look reversed from reality)

Bottom line is I think it was done outside of the mint but it's hard to explain exactly how but it's also not fitting anything that the mint would/could make. Back to Wills statement, ask how it could be those 2 dates combined with everything else convinces me it's somehow been concocted outside the mint. Now if some expert can explain it as a real error I'll be amazed LOL

[jfines69]

This is a cool looking coin... No doubt about that but I still believe it to be one that someone spent a lot of time making... Maybe BJ or even Mike Diamond could shed more lite on this... That or it is a time traveling mint worker The more eyes and opinions the better for all!!!

[GrumpyEd]

That or it is a time traveling mint worker

It fits the MO of the night watchman Theodore Eckfeldt. He must have time traveled from the 1850s and pulled this off.

[enamel7]

Are you sure this isn't a form of adhesive causing the appearance of a clash?