Error Lamination | Copper-plated zinc lamination error?

[Guest]

Hi All,
I found this one last night and it looks for the life of me to be a lamination error. But, it's on a copper-plated zinc planchet! I've only seen these on the older bronze / brass planchets before. Kind of strange because the copper is plated on, not just alloyed in. How does this happen? It looks like a large lamination peel that was folded back prior to striking, but are peels known on plated cents? I'd appreciate any info!

[JeanK]

Sorry AgCollector, I seem to have more questions than you do, and I cannot answer directly to the anomaly's source.
Have you weighed the coin? If it weighs in at 3.+- it might be one of the copper 83 Lincolns, which would be quite a find. If it is 2.5+- it is the zinc version. Thinking about this I am wondering if this could be possible on either type of coin. It is a very striking example of a lamination problem. A very long shot only because the placement is so perfect, could it possibly be a piece from another coin which peeled away and wound up on your coin?
Jean

[AgCollector]

Sorry AgCollector, I seem to have more questions than you do, and I cannot answer directly to the anomaly's source.
Have you weighed the coin? If it weighs in at 3.+- it might be one of the copper 83 Lincolns, which would be quite a find. If it is 2.5+- it is the zinc version. Thinking about this I am wondering if this could be possible on either type of coin. It is a very striking example of a lamination problem. A very long shot only because the placement is so perfect, could it possibly be a piece from another coin which peeled away and wound up on your coin?
Jean

Hi Jean,
I forgot to mention the weight- it is 2.6 grams, so it's definitely a newer planchet. I don't think it's a piece from another coin because if you look at the second closeup, you can see that if you trace back the raised piece that goes right under the Y in LIBERTY that it eventually smoothly joins Lincoln's bust around mid-shoulder. I think the upper piece that contains the RT and part of the E of LIBERTY might be that same underlying piece, just folded back instead of continuing to the edge of the coin. You can see how the rim is suddenly jagged from about where it meets the bust to just above the L in LIBERTY, i.e. from 7:30 to 9:00 on a clock face.

[JeanK]

You do find some very interesting coins. It is obviously a lamination problem.
Another theory... this coin had that spot which was not properly bonded to the core, and with the first hit of the die on the coin it picked up that piece of metal and on the second hit the piece was placed back on the coin in the same position wherein it did bond because it hit some other copper and bonded to that... ?
You are going to hear from 1sgret on this one. He might not have one like this in his deep treasure chest.
Jean

[1sgret]

I have one I found about a week ago and put it in a 50 count tube. However mine was just a lamination and not folded. I would send the pictures to MDial1@aol.com and have him evaluate it since it is a LMC. If anyone knows it would be Mike Diamond.

It may be a piece of scrap or fragment that entered the striking chamber also. (Theory)

[fugnchill]

Hi All,

I was thinking a fragment also. The letters on LIBERTY kind of give that feel. The part I'm not to sure of is the N.W. section that is on Lincolns shoulder, it blends into the coat but there is no seam running South...It'll be interesting to see what it is.

Lestrrr

[Brian B.]

AgCollector
, I took your photos and studied them using photoshop and have come to the concluesion that what you have is a struck through a retained fragment, look at the one photo I did of your coin, then look closely at your original photos and you"ll see how I came to this Concluesion.
You have to remember about the pressures and heat generated in the striking of the coin, that's why it looks like the plating is flush at shoulder, and looks like a lamination..........

[AgCollector]

Here's a picture highlighting what I'm stuck on now- inside the black area, you can see that, coming from the lower left along the rim, the field is smooth until that "junction", and it's also smooth coming along the rim from the other direction, but right in that area it seems like the left hand side is lower down, like it used to be under the peel. That's why I don't think it's a struck-through, retained fragment.

[Brian B.]

That area looks like the fragment extended beyond the rim..........

[AgCollector]

That area looks like the fragment extended beyond the rim..........

And then only a portion of it was retained?

[Brian B.]

Right, the fragment was bonded at the the point where the design high point is, I'm not sure, but I think the pressure should be higher there where metal flows into the die......

[AgCollector]

I've decided to send this one in to Mike Diamond, so I'll let you all know what the prognosis is when it returns.

[AgCollector]

I've decided to send this one in to Mike Diamond, so I'll let you all know what the prognosis is when it returns.

Here's Mike's analysis:

I have your coin. It proved to be quite interesting.

We can't be dealing with a plating separation because there's copper plating underneath the loose flaps of metal. I can only conclude that the zinc planchet itself was peeling, and that it entered the plating bath after some of the metal had lifted up. That allowed both sides of the loose metal to be plated along with the area beneath it. The delaminating metal was then struck along with the intact part of the planchet.

I have never before encountered a zinc planchet that peeled in the fashion of a solid copper-alloy planchet. Congrats on finding a one-of-a-kind error.

So, quite a find!

[fugnchill]

Very Cool AG,

I'm wondering if he lifted the flap to see copper plating under it or just a high powered scope with pinpoint lighting.

So this would be called a "Copper plated delaminating zinc planchet"... I think.

Lestrrr

[1sgret]

Excellent find and I don't seem to have one of these in my collection. Now I can go back thru my 50 ct tubes and see if I can find the one I put up.

Mike proably did not disturbe the lamination flap and used his handy tools to make a diagnosis of the coin. Too much of a chance of runining the error coin. I like the definition. Joe