Error Struck Through | 1924s struck through grease?

[Petespockets55]

I found two of these 1924s in a pair of back to back rolls (same seller as the 1925s rpm from a month or so ago)
The Obverse has some severe "wavyness" around the rim which I think is caused by grease or some kind of liquid.
One is around the whole rim and the other contained to the area by LIBERTY.
The full rim coin also has a fairly sharp reverse (AU?)
but weak obverse which is probably from an extremely worn die.
(The last image, above LIBERTY, is the second, less severe coin)

Edit- Very weird as I had included 10 images. I'll repost them.

[VAB2013]

Not sure Cliff, but I'm leaning more toward die wear. Odd looking sure enough, almost looks like a lam, but... not.

[Petespockets55]

I'll try again with images.

[VAB2013]

Really good images Cliff! I'm still thinking it's from a worn die because you can see heavy die flow lines but I've never seen it cause that crumpled look.

Question please, what is going on with that last photo (in the second set of photos)? I couldn't figure out what part of the coin that is, it looks really odd like a second rim.

[Petespockets55]

Really good images Cliff! I'm still thinking it's from a worn die because you can see heavy die flow lines but I've never seen it cause that crumpled look.

Question please, what is going on with that last photo (in the second set of photos)? I couldn't figure out what part of the coin that is, it looks really odd like a second rim.

Thanks Viv.
That last image is the area under the bust. The rim on the far left, the flow lines leading to the field, the field before the bust and then the lapel.

My apologies for not orienting them correctly but when I edit them on my phone it seems to do something to affect the quality. When I rotate and crop it seems to blur what had been an ok image.

I actually think this may be more than one thing going on. Definitely some heavy die flow lines from old, poorly maintained dies.
Extreme die wear seems to be creating the trough or trench around the rim/field intersection. I don't know if these were ever polished or blemishes removed because it seems like polishing would remove this trough. As wavy as the lines are I was thinking it was grease or a liquid (oil?) that affected the strike.

I'm guessing with relatively few 1924s made (11.696 million) the workers had to make the dies last for...ev...er.
Maybe not polishing and applying grease/oil on it was a way to prolong the life of the die.

Or.... Maybe the senior die maintenance worker was on vacation and the newbie didn't know how to polish so just threw grease/oil on it?

[VAB2013]

Thank you Cliff, now I can tell what that last photo is, but I tell you every time I look at it, it looks different. With that being the bottom of the vest, it looks like the bottom of the vest is really thick, like the edge of a coin rim instead of blending into the rest of the vest. I dunno, maybe too much turkey??

I see why you are thinking struck through grease, that anomaly is just about all around the coin, pretty intense looking. Let's see what the pros have to say!

[jfines69]

Definitely cool looking... Could this be an extremely late stage capped die??? I am just not sure it is all from die and circ wear??? Maybe PM Mike Diamond to come look???

[makecents]

I have seen similar things happen with silver dollars that were believed to be due to moisture as opposed to grease. You have to remember that there was not climate control at that time like we have now and I would say San Fransisco has some heavy temperature swings. Maybe one of the first strikes of the morning and some water had condensated under the die. Just a thought. Very neat looking though.

[Petespockets55]

I have seen similar things happen with silver dollars that were believed to be due to moisture as opposed to grease. You have to remember that there was not climate control at that time like we have now and I would say San Fransisco has some heavy temperature swings. Maybe one of the first strikes of the morning and some water had condensated under the die. Just a thought. Very neat looking though.

Thanks Jon.
I was thinking it was something more fluid-like than grease by the wavy lines.
Moisture condensates on the warmer surface (think tumbler of Egg Nog)

or..... fog collecting from an open window. (Oh yeh, I can see the plot for a new Edgar Allen Poe thriller and as they say in the south "I'm scarred of ghosts".)

[mikediamond]

I haven't encountered this particular appearance before. I strongly suspect that it's a peculiar form of die wear. However, I can't rule out as a contributing factor the presence of some form of "grease" just inside the design rim.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Mike.
I actually got three 1924s in the two rolls but this one shows the most extreme wavyness. I thought it might have to do with the low mintages for the year and the mint trying to use the dies longer than they should along with poor maintenance of the dies.

[stoneman227]

It's a late die state effect. Actually it can be seen on the late die states of 1924-s ddo-001 . Here is mine

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?39999-1924-S-DDO-001&highlight=1924-s

John

[Petespockets55]

It's a late die state effect. Actually it can be seen on the late die states of 1924-s ddo-001 . Here is mine

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?39999-1924-S-DDO-001&highlight=1924-s

John

Thanks John.
Have you noticed this anomaly being on other relatively lower mintage years you may collect?
Cliff

[GrumpyEd]

The mush and wave around the bust is similar to some 1922 and 1926-D and S cents with mushy worn out dies but they don't have as much of the trench around the rim but I think it's also from worn out dies.

[stoneman227]

Thanks John.
Have you noticed this anomaly being on other relatively lower mintage years you may collect?
Cliff

Cliff , I have been moon eyed over this coin on ebay because of the 9 in the date but the price is more than would pay for it.
Some of the same pattern is going on with this coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1929-S-Lincoln-Cent-Wheat-Penny-GEM-BU-CONDITION-N494/312006921350?hash=item48a50fcc86:g:LXgAAOSwax5Ys0KQ&redirect=mobile

John