1992 p planchet error

[GrumpyEd]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

[jfines69]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense to me!!!

[Petespockets55]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

Thanks for your input Ed. And yes, what your are saying makes sense for a softer more pliable object (thread or cloth). But tensile stength and tension of the wire while being pressed against the surface of the planchet would not allow much deflection of the wire into the die cavity, on the narrow distance of a letter. There might be some but not much. The sides would also stay relatively parallel and not show much deformity.

A rim hitting the planchet before the strike could create an incuse arc (and the ends would taper off as it exits the surface of the planchet) similar to end of the arc at the column on mine. Wouldn't a "struck through a piece of wire" show an incuse area with parallel sides along the entire length of the anomaly, even at the end of the wire?


I think we are in agreement on the following:
1)The incuse area appears to be caused by a dense rigid object, probably metal.
2)There is some metal flow or distortion on the bottom and sides where the incuse area intersects the letters of the coin.

I believe our differences lie in the appearance of the metal once it flows into and through the intersection of the anomaly and the letters.

My belief is that the error is determined by the metal flow at the intersection of two incuse areas (letters of the die and incuse area on the planchet) as opposed to the metal flow at the intersection of one incuse area and the metal/wire object.

(I'm not trying to beat his horse to death and I hope I'm not sounding argumentative or difficult because of my lack of communication skills and thought process. I'm trying to make sense of what I'm seeing and have learned while being a part of this forum. It is frustrating and I apologize if I have come off this way because everyone here has been so helpful sharing their knowledge and time.)
Thanks again, Cliff

[GrumpyEd]

Cliff,

I know what you mean.
Sort of based on how hard the thing it's struck through is. What I said makes the most sense if it's a sliver of metal. If it's a harder metal wire then it might be a deeper groove crossing the letter.

That's why this one is tough to be sure about.

[mustbebob]

This indeed looks like a struck through. A couple of things to remember though. Even a thread leaves an impression so there are many possibilities here. What caused this struck through is unknown but variables do exist. Mike Diamond once die an article about a struck through filament on a steel cent I had found. The depth of the filament was different on some parts of the coin. We can think outside the box a bit and assume that whatever it was in the striking chamber was the same thickness throughout, but that may not be the case. The different 'hills and valley's' of the die, along with the striking pressure will determine how weak or strong the struck through is. We can try to guess what the item was, but in the big scheme of things, this is a struck through where we will never know what was struck. It is a very nice example though. Well worth holding on to.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks to all for your patience and sharing your expertise and knowledge.
This one will get labeled as a strike through.

[jfines69]

If memory serves me correct the strike pressure is 80 tons with a production rate of 12 coins per second??? Even a cotton string at that pressure becomes nearly as hard as the copper... Like Bob said - definitely one to keep... Do you still want me to get pics for you???

[Petespockets55]

If memory serves me correct the strike pressure is 80 tons with a production rate of 12 coins per second??? Even a cotton string at that pressure becomes nearly as hard as the copper... Like Bob said - definitely one to keep... Do you still want me to get pics for you???

Yes please. Your images are always top notch and make it easy to see.

[jfines69]

Yes please. Your images are always top notch and make it easy to see.

Any time Cliff!!!

[jfines69]

Cliff sent me this coin to look at... Very cool... Best I can tell it is a struck thru and probably a piece of copper... There is a retained piece from the tip of the 1st A of STATES to the rim... I used pointers to show the edges on both sides... It even has die abrasions across it... The rest of the area where the piece fell out runs down well into C1... I did some close up pics for ya'll... Notice how sharp the edges are along the entire length... There is also no apparent damage in the canyon... The only edge areas that are not sharp are where they cross the devices... Thanks Cliff for letting me look at and get pics of this coin... I appreciate it!!!

[makecents]

Cliff sent me this coin to look at... Very cool... Best I can tell it is a struck thru and probably a piece of copper... There is a retained piece from the tip of the 1st A of STATES to the rim... I used pointers to show the edges on both sides... It even has die abrasions across it... The rest of the area where the piece fell out runs down well into C1... I did some close up pics for ya'll... Notice how sharp the edges are along the entire length... There is also no apparent damage in the canyon... The only edge areas that are not sharp are where they cross the devices... Thanks Cliff for letting me look at and get pics of this coin... I appreciate it!!!

Very nice work and pics Jim!! Cliff, that is a nice struck through!

[Petespockets55]

Thank you very much. Superb images again Jim.
Very clearly shows the piece left in the area between the rim and the first A.
(Don't know why I didn't see that originally with the coin in hand. Sheesh! )

[GrumpyEd]

Great pics Jim, you even got some MD in the pics.

Struck through a soft metal made the most sense, neat that a piece stayed put.

[jfines69]

Thank you very much. Superb images again Jim.
Very clearly shows the piece left in the area between the rim and the first A.
(Don't know why I didn't see that originally with the coin in hand. Sheesh! )

I could not see it to well with the loupe either... Wasn't sure until I was able to zoom in!!!

[jfines69]

Great pics Jim, you even got some MD in the pics.

Struck through a soft metal made the most sense, neat that a piece stayed put.

I forgot to mention the MD... Thanks Ed!!!