1958D -Die gouge???

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  • jfines69
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 28848

    #1

    Error Other | 1958D -Die gouge???

    Here is a nice 1958D that Cliff sent for me to look at... To me the area SW of the MM appears to be a die gouge... I can not see any sign of a secondary MM???
    Attached Files
    Jim
    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
  • makecents
    Paid Member

    • Jun 2017
    • 11038

    #2
    Very cool looking!! Nice work Jim and great pics! Nice find Cliff!! I noticed several Cliff sent you recently Jim, he got you on retainer?

    Comment

    • VAB2013
      Forum Ambassador
      • Nov 2013
      • 12351

      #3
      That is a pretty wheat cent and nice pics Jim! I'd think die gouge too since there's nothing that would match up with a die clash. Cool find Cliff! LOL @Jon on the retainer

      Comment

      • jfines69
        Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 28848

        #4
        Originally posted by makecents
        Very cool looking!! Nice work Jim and great pics! Nice find Cliff!! I noticed several Cliff sent you recently Jim, he got you on retainer?
        I have all my teeth so I don't use retainers Just a couple of coins to look at... I love a good puzzle... Wait until you see his 85P rev clash... Hopefully I am getting it lined up correctly!!!
        Jim
        (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

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        • Petespockets55
          Paid Member

          • Dec 2014
          • 6890

          #5
          Really nice images again Jim. It makes it easier to see the gouge.
          Thanks to everyone for looking and all comments.

          When I enlarged your image it looked similar to the wheat seeds on the reverse but it isn't wide enough I don't believe.
          Another case of Pareidolia
          on my part.

          Comment

          • jallengomez
            Member
            • Jan 2010
            • 4447

            #6
            The 1958 cents were plagued by these wispy die gouges. I've seen this particular die several times, and I'm currently in the middle of a study of these gouged dies. I have well over a hundred different dies with these types of gouges. It was overwhelmingly present in 1958 and I've also found a few examples from 1957 and a couple from 1959. Almost all are Denver minted cents.
            “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

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            • VAB2013
              Forum Ambassador
              • Nov 2013
              • 12351

              #7
              Originally posted by jallengomez
              The 1958 cents were plagued by these wispy die gouges. I've seen this particular die several times, and I'm currently in the middle of a study of these gouged dies. I have well over a hundred different dies with these types of gouges. It was overwhelmingly present in 1958 and I've also found a few examples from 1957 and a couple from 1959. Almost all are Denver minted cents.
              Thank you for the info Jody! It will be nice to hear about your study once it is completed!!!

              Comment

              • jallengomez
                Member
                • Jan 2010
                • 4447

                #8
                Thanks Val. I'll report when it's concluded. I don't know that I'll determine what type of instrument it was that was doing this. These gouges are even found in the deep recessed areas of the die such as the head, neck, and shoulder. The basic takeaway will be to be extremely skeptical of anything that seems like an improbably misplaced mint mark. WRPM-021 comes to mind.
                “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

                Comment

                • Petespockets55
                  Paid Member

                  • Dec 2014
                  • 6890

                  #9
                  Thank you Jody. And I like your name for them. "Wispy" die gouges is a very apt description.
                  Cliff

                  Comment

                  • jfines69
                    Member
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 28848

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Petespockets55
                    Really nice images again Jim. It makes it easier to see the gouge.
                    Thanks to everyone for looking and all comments.

                    When I enlarged your image it looked similar to the wheat seeds on the reverse but it isn't wide enough I don't believe.
                    Another case of Pareidolia
                    on my part.
                    Looks like the tip of the west stalks upper seeds... Now i need to do an overlay... Give me a few!!!
                    Jim
                    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

                    Comment

                    • jfines69
                      Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 28848

                      #11
                      Sounds like an interesting study... Looking forward to what you find out!!!
                      Jim
                      (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

                      Comment

                      • jfines69
                        Member
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 28848

                        #12
                        I did the overlay... The gouge does look close in appearance to the upper seeds of the west stalk however it only appears to be a clash... I am still on the die gouge band wagon... The pair of doilies are working over time Now if you come across another 58D from this die with more than just the one area showing it may turn out to be something more... Either way good eye ballin' the similarity!!!
                        Attached Files
                        Jim
                        (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

                        Comment

                        • Petespockets55
                          Paid Member

                          • Dec 2014
                          • 6890

                          #13
                          Thanks for the overlay Jim. I didn't notice the similarity until I saw your clear images.
                          Yes there were 2(?) more from the roll, but they all showed the same anomaly.

                          It is interesting when someone else has found something odd and able to confirm additional die pairs for the year.

                          Comment

                          • jfines69
                            Member
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 28848

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Petespockets55
                            Thanks for the overlay Jim. I didn't notice the similarity until I saw your clear images.
                            Yes there were 2(?) more from the roll, but they all showed the same anomaly.

                            It is interesting when someone else has found something odd and able to confirm additional die pairs for the year.
                            Were there any other extra gouges or anomalies on any of the others???
                            Jim
                            (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

                            Comment

                            • Petespockets55
                              Paid Member

                              • Dec 2014
                              • 6890

                              #15
                              Originally posted by jfines69
                              Were there any other extra gouges or anomalies on any of the others???
                              I don't believe so.
                              They were in the same roll as this one so I would have assumed they were the same die when I found them a couple of years ago.
                              I'll have dig them up and have a look see.

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