Error Die Crack | 2017P Spike with slight RIDB and long pre die crack depression

[VAB2013]

These photos are bad, and not JC worthy so if this is a listing candidate I will have to take better photos. Didn't see this spike listed though.

What fascinates me with this SKH is what is going on below it. I think what I'm seeing is a large pre die crack depression heading East from the slight RIDB. If so, it's the longest and deepest pre die crack depression I've ever seen

If you don't have time to look at all the pics, I understand... the first pic shows part of what I'm talking about.

[makecents]

Nice find Viv!! That's also very unusual on a shield to boot. The pre die crack is a crater! Looks like Abe had a labottomy and they didn't put him back together all the way!

[VAB2013]

Nice find Viv!! That's also very unusual on a shield to boot. The pre die crack is a crater! Looks like Abe had a labottomy and they didn't put him back together all the way!

LOL... thank you Jon! It is a deep pre die crack depression, never seen this on a Shield, or one this deep on any Lincoln before. But, that's got to be what this is...

[jfines69]

Nice spike... Not sure on the RIDB as I can not tell if there is any displacement along the cracks??? The term pre die crack depression to this day does not make sense to me??? Since it is incuse on the coin it would have to be in relief on the die unless of course it is in reference to a form of pressure ridge??? Any idea???

[VAB2013]

Nice spike... Not sure on the RIDB as I can not tell if there is any displacement along the cracks??? The term pre die crack depression to this day does not make sense to me??? Since it is incuse on the coin it would have to be in relief on the die unless of course it is in reference to a form of pressure ridge??? Any idea???

Thank you Jim! On the RIDB that is why my pic is labeled "slight RIDB" because the shape is there but that's about it so I didn't know what else to call it (pre-RIDB?)

I would love for Bob to explain pre die crack depression to us because I can't find a definition for it and it would be nice to have it added to our Glossary. It would be great if Bob can help us with writing up the definition and maybe a photo or two! Then what we are seeing here will make more sense! I will PM Bob and ask him.

[mustbebob]

I would love to help you out Viv but I have never heard of a pre die crack depression. I do not know where the term came from. I have heard of regular depressions or 'sunken in' areas of the die. These primarily occurred on 1960 era coinage on the reverse right side cornice area. Not all depressions resulted in a die crack forming. Somebody like Mike Diamond may be able to explain the intricacies of a die depression and how they are formed. Unfortunately, I don't know much more than that.

[jfines69]

The only place I have seen the term of pre die crack depression was on Wexlers site... There were some recent DDs that some one used Wexlers as an attribution for and he had used the term??? I think the only reasonable nomenclature for a pre RIDB would be a crack... Since a RIDB is required to have a shift of the design ???

[makecents]

The only place I have seen the term of pre die crack depression was on Wexlers site... There were some recent DDs that some one used Wexlers as an attribution for and he had used the term??? I think the only reasonable nomenclature for a pre RIDB would be a crack... Since a RIDB is required to have a shift of the design ???

I went back and looked. It was a 2017 but it must have been one that got nixed, it's not there now. It was on the forehead.

[VAB2013]

I would love to help you out Viv but I have never heard of a pre die crack depression. I do not know where the term came from. I have heard of regular depressions or 'sunken in' areas of the die. These primarily occurred on 1960 era coinage on the reverse right side cornice area. Not all depressions resulted in a die crack forming. Somebody like Mike Diamond may be able to explain the intricacies of a die depression and how they are formed. Unfortunately, I don't know much more than that.

Thank you very much Bob for your attention to this! I have searched error-ref.com and did not see where Mike Diamond mentions anything about pre die crack depressions. As Jim and Jon have said, I believe that Mr. Wexler might be the only attributer to mention this term and show examples of it in his photos and attribution notes. Perhaps we can ask Mr. Wexler to provide us with a definition and guide us to his example photos. I will also ask JC since I think that is what I am seeing on this SKH.

[VAB2013]

The only place I have seen the term of pre die crack depression was on Wexlers site... There were some recent DDs that some one used Wexlers as an attribution for and he had used the term??? I think the only reasonable nomenclature for a pre RIDB would be a crack... Since a RIDB is required to have a shift of the design ???

That is correct Jim, I have only seen the term on Mr. Wexler's site. Also, there is a thread where you and I are talking about being confused about this and I can't find the thread, will keep looking for it.

I see your point about an RIDB just being a die crack if there is no shifting.

[VAB2013]

I went back and looked. It was a 2017 but it must have been one that got nixed, it's not there now. It was on the forehead.

I remember that one Jon, and there could be other listings where Mr. Wexler mentions this besides 2017 because I remember a thread where this came up before.

[VAB2013]

Jon, you are correct. It was Wexler's Die 006 that was removed. It was your thread, here it is

[makecents]

Jon, you are correct. It was Wexler's Die 006 that was removed. It was your thread, here it is

And there it is! Nice detective work there Viv!

[jfines69]

Thanks for the follow up ya'll... Nice to know we weren't imagining the conversations about pre die crack depressions I do think guidance from Wexler would be in order!!!