Lincoln struck on a washer (off metal error)

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  • jcuve
    Moderator, Die & Variety Expert
    • Apr 2008
    • 15458

    #1

    Lincoln struck on a washer (off metal error)

    Here is a no date Lincoln memorial struck on a washer.
    Shot it at the ANA show. I was in a hurry so the pics are not up to my standards.
    NGC MS67 (how they graded this I do not know) weight 1.17GR
    Coin courtesy Mark Lighterman






    Jason Cuvelier


    MadDieClashes.com - ErrorVariety.com
    TrailDies.com - Error-ref.com - Port.Cuvelier.org
    CONECA

    (images © Jason Cuvelier 2008-18)___________________
  • Roller
    Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 6975

    #2
    Incredible. How was it found?

    Comment

    • seal006
      Member
      • Jun 2010
      • 2330

      #3
      Looks like something that would have to been done intentionally at the mint. Then smuggled out. Would that be an illegal coin?
      "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

      Comment

      • Maineman750
        Administrator

        • Apr 2011
        • 12079

        #4
        I'm curious as to how the hole got that jagged look to it. That's not how a normal washer looks....I'm assuming the pressure of the strike moved/distorted the metal towards the hole.
        https://www.ebay.com/sch/maineman750...75.m3561.l2562

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        • coincollectingenterprises
          Member
          • Feb 2012
          • 444

          #5
          What is the metal property of the washer? I could "make" that using an existing penny so I assume the metal property is different to prove it was done in a mint?
          Copper Pennies: coincollectingenterprises.com
          wheat-cents.com, Unsearched Coin, 90% US Silver coins

          Comment

          • jcuve
            Moderator, Die & Variety Expert
            • Apr 2008
            • 15458

            #6
            Look closely, the there is metal flow toward the incomplete peripheral areas distorting the design. You cannot fake that with an existing Lincoln cent. I suppose if you just happened to have a cent struck on a small piece of steel, you could make a hole in the center...

            I do not know the back story - or even if there was one. I could see it being intentional or some very odd mistake...



            Jason Cuvelier


            MadDieClashes.com - ErrorVariety.com
            TrailDies.com - Error-ref.com - Port.Cuvelier.org
            CONECA

            (images © Jason Cuvelier 2008-18)___________________

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            • coincollectingenterprises
              Member
              • Feb 2012
              • 444

              #7
              Originally posted by jcuve
              Look closely, the there is metal flow toward the incomplete peripheral areas distorting the design. You cannot fake that with an existing Lincoln cent. I suppose if you just happened to have a cent struck on a small piece of steel, you could make a hole in the center...

              I do not know the back story - or even if there was one. I could see it being intentional or some very odd mistake...
              Interesting. I wonder if a 1943 steel cent could be manipulated to give a similar appearance.
              Last edited by coincollectingenterprises; 10-09-2012, 07:24 PM.
              Copper Pennies: coincollectingenterprises.com
              wheat-cents.com, Unsearched Coin, 90% US Silver coins

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              • liveandievarieties
                TPG & Market Expert
                • Feb 2011
                • 6049

                #8
                That's phenomenal, nothing I see would make me question it's authenticity, though I'm sure that there's no shortage of people who would be willing to attempt replicating it (not suggesting you Dan).

                Any idea on vintage? From the hub style, it looks '83-'85, but the off metal could be throwing me too. Amazing coin, er... hardware.
                [B][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=2]Chris & Charity Welch- [COLOR=red]LIVEAN[/COLOR][COLOR=black]DIE[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]VARIETIES[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Purveyors of Modern Treasure [/FONT]

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                • seal006
                  Member
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 2330

                  #9
                  I have a lawnmower in need of repair. That looks like the right size for the job. Think the owner would let me use it?
                  "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

                  Comment

                  • flyhi3
                    Member
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 3702

                    #10
                    Originally posted by seal006
                    I have a lawnmower in need of repair. That looks like the right size for the job. Think the owner would let me use it?
                    I HOPE NOT!

                    What a spectacular coin, washer, error thing
                    Alexander Helzel
                    Ecrater eBay Facebook

                    Comment

                    • jcuve
                      Moderator, Die & Variety Expert
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 15458

                      #11
                      Any time something is struck where the collar is not containing the energy of the strike, you get metal flow on the coin. This is true of incomplete planchets (clips) and off-metals that are smaller than the intended collar assembly (such as this washer). Another source is if the collar is jammed or the planchet is on top of the collar. So off-center struck coins, broadstrikes as well as some MADS will also have this metal flow. I cannot imagine how you would duplicate it on a previously struck coin.



                      Jason Cuvelier


                      MadDieClashes.com - ErrorVariety.com
                      TrailDies.com - Error-ref.com - Port.Cuvelier.org
                      CONECA

                      (images © Jason Cuvelier 2008-18)___________________

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                      • DCW
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 2085

                        #12
                        It's nice, but I'm detecting some rub on the high points. Probably AU58 at best

                        Comment

                        • trails
                          Moderator, Error Expert
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 3358

                          #13
                          Washers struck with denominational dies are uncommon and are rather pricey to own ($6000.00 to $8000.00). Here is the link to error-ref.com and that subject:



                          BJ Neff
                          ANA, CCC, CONECA, FUN, Fly-In-Club, NLG & "The Error-Variety Education Consortium"

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                          • coincollectingenterprises
                            Member
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 444

                            #14
                            Originally posted by jcuve
                            Any time something is struck where the collar is not containing the energy of the strike, you get metal flow on the coin. This is true of incomplete planchets (clips) and off-metals that are smaller than the intended collar assembly (such as this washer). Another source is if the collar is jammed or the planchet is on top of the collar. So off-center struck coins, broadstrikes as well as some MADS will also have this metal flow. I cannot imagine how you would duplicate it on a previously struck coin.
                            Fascinating. Thank you for the detailed response. This makes me curious as to some of the coins I see come through my door that have some obscure looks to them or the rim clearly shows some kind of "breakage" on it. There's a dime in particular that looks like someone hacked it in half across the thickness and then soldered it back together. Now you're making me rethink that some of these may not be external errors but internal errors relating to the mint.
                            Copper Pennies: coincollectingenterprises.com
                            wheat-cents.com, Unsearched Coin, 90% US Silver coins

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