1944-P DDO help needed

[jay4202472000]

Happy new year gang! I need some help on this one. I picked it thinking it was 1944P-DDO-013/1DO-001, due to the doubling under RTY. Jason sent it to Wiles for listing, and Bob is credited with the 1DO-001, so I hope they stop by for insight. I hope I don’t get too long winded for you, but I feel this will turn out to be a lengthy assessment of this die. I just wish I could insert images as I discuss each device.


I have determined this is either a different die all together, or it’s from a different die state with a crisp strike.


Wiles lists 013 as stage B, but the devices don’t look as crisp as mine, plus there is no remnants of the eye gouge/doubling I’ll mention later.


The 1DO-001 is MDS, I can’t see the date doubling on my coin or make it out on the VV example, and neither listings mention any of the doubling I’m about to describe.

• The eye: I haven’t ruled out a gouge, but it sure looks like an eyelid north to me. VV has an image with no gouge/doubling and CC has no image nor mention.
• The ear: There is definite doubling on the back side of the lobe on my coin. VV nor CC mention or image.
• The date: As I said, I see nothing on my coin. CC mentions and image, VV does not mention and I don’t see it in the image.
• First T in TRUST: My coin has a vertical bar to the left of main bar. CC no mention or image of TRUST at all, VV image but I don’t see any.
• U in TRUST: My coin has a small curve on lower left. VV has image but I see nothing.
• Last T of TRUST: I see a faint HORIZONTAL bar below the main bar on my coin, but this doesn’t make any sense to me. It wouldn’t match the direction of the other doubling in TRUST, unless I just can’t make out the vertical bar. VV has an image and I see doubling to the left of the vertical bar, but Wiles doesn’t mention it.

I have a lot of images. Please help me figure this out. Thanks all!

[jay4202472000]

Some more images

[jay4202472000]

Full shots. Sorry couldn’t get them all to add in one.

[kloccwork419]

To me. It doesnt match DDO-013 at all. The doubling on your LIBERTY is lower and slightly more to the right. Might be a new die. Very nice coin

[GrumpyEd]

Very nice example, I bet some attributors would be happy to get some pics of that for their listings.

It's interesting how certain doubling hits certain years like this one, there are some 43 cents that are very similar.

[makecents]

I would like to hear what Bob has to say about this one. I'm wondering if some of what we are seeing here are clash remnants, maybe not all but it could explain some of it. You can clearly see the "N" at the neck, so it did have some clashing going on before it was cleaned up.

[Petespockets55]

Really nice coin and love the way the arms of the second Y are even visible below the primary one.

I think you've got a nice winner.

[mustbebob]

Based on what I see, your coin and 1DO-001 are the same die. I am basing that strictly on the die clash in the neck area. As far as VV's DDO-013, I just don't know without the coin in hand for a comparison. VV's lack of markers is puzzling, especially if there was a clash. I don'r expect Dr. Wiles to miss those things. As far as being a new or different die, I am not convinced and I won't be without the chance to examine it with the VV version. I am pretty much convinced it is the CC 1DO-001, so the cross reference could be incorrect. I do think that reference was given by Jason Cuve though.

[jay4202472000]

Based on what I see, your coin and 1DO-001 are the same die. I am basing that strictly on the die clash in the neck area. As far as VV's DDO-013, I just don't know without the coin in hand for a comparison. VV's lack of markers is puzzling, especially if there was a clash. I don'r expect Dr. Wiles to miss those things. As far as being a new or different die, I am not convinced and I won't be without the chance to examine it with the VV version. I am pretty much convinced it is the CC 1DO-001, so the cross reference could be incorrect. I do think that reference was given by Jason Cuve though.

Thank you all and thank you Bob. The clash looked spot on to me too as far as placement. That’s why I included the pic. It just looks like the CC coin is a later die state. None of the reverse markers are present. I just wonder if the gouge/doubled eyelid and the doubling on the underside of the ear is present on the CC plate coin?

Bob, if you would care to have a look at it I would be glad to send it to you. Just let me know if you have time and would like to.

[kloccwork419]

Based on what I see, your coin and 1DO-001 are the same die. I am basing that strictly on the die clash in the neck area. As far as VV's DDO-013, I just don't know without the coin in hand for a comparison. VV's lack of markers is puzzling, especially if there was a clash. I don'r expect Dr. Wiles to miss those things. As far as being a new or different die, I am not convinced and I won't be without the chance to examine it with the VV version. I am pretty much convinced it is the CC 1DO-001, so the cross reference could be incorrect. I do think that reference was given by Jason Cuve though.

Totally agree with Bob that its 1DO-001 and cant believe I didn't check CC. I just went right to VV. I don't think the coin on VV is the same die though. Your doubling and the coin on CC matches. Its slightly more to the right than the coin on VV. Much stronger than the one listed so maybe an earlier die.

[jay4202472000]

Thanks Bob & klocckwork for giving me the confidence to study 1DO-001 further. I thought i had included the image of the clash, but I obviously didn't. Compare with the clash image at CC and there is a tiny curved die scratch within the clash mark. It adjoins the bow tie. It doesn't show well in my image that i forgot to add, but i can see it easily with my loupe. I am comfortable labeling as 1DO-001, but i still can't confirm DDO-013. It just looks different.

https://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1944&die_id=1944p1do001&die_state=mds

[mustbebob]

Good call!

[jfines69]

Nice DDO... Is your coin an EDS of CCs MDS???

[jay4202472000]

Nice DDO... Is your coin an EDS of CCs MDS???

That is what it looks like to me Jim.

[jfines69]

That is what it looks like to me Jim.

Thanks for the follow up... One thing that is still throwing me is the Y... On yours there is a strong section of the secondary Y on the west side but I do not see that on CCs 001 or VVs 013... I would have thought the weaker section on the east side would have worn away before the west side???