Materials and best way to clean coins.

[Roller]

I accept the concept expressed by Badthad but I do think that the whole matter is getting out of hand again. I have never seen damage done by mild soap and soft brush. If I ever find a very valuable coin you can bet that I will not touch it for cleaning. Meanwhile, if the choice is to throw back because you can't tell what you have I will use whatever it takes to allow me to see what I have (unless I have a weird feeling that I may have something extraordinary).

[mustbebob]

I have been watching this thread for a while now. I have not posted anything because of redundancy. We have been told to never clean coins, but there is a difference between cleaning, and conservation. If you don't think damage can be done to a coin using mild soap and a soft brush, I must insist that it can. It's not the soap, or the brush that causes damage, but the movement of the dirt particles that can cause fine scratches on the coin's surface. Although it may not seem severe, it could cause a reduction in grade by a third party grading service, or a 'cleaned' designation all together. A lot of it has to do with what you use to view the coin. A scope would show this damage better than a loupe. Sometimes, the light direction would show it.
With all that being said you need to do what you feel you need to do to see the details on your coin. We all have our ways of doing it, and some of us have experimented more than others. The opinions expressed here are yours for the taking, or you can leave them be. I would just hate to see someone make a mistake on a coin that could have proved to be better if it wasn't messed with, or if conservation was performed skillfully.

[Roller]

Would someone please define "coservation".

[mustbebob]

George, we can get into it really, really deep or we can use the dictionary meaning:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conservation

In a nutshell, we are conserving the coin by preventing further damage by dirt, corrosion, and other environmental factors. We do this by removing the foreign materials from the surface of the coin. This is done with extreme care and diligence by those who know how to, and with the use of chemicals and/or other materials that will not, in any way, detract from the coins natural progression of wear, toning, and appearance.

[Roller]

I guess I should have prefaced my response by stating that this is what I do. I do not suggest anyone to follow. Common sense is always an ingredient. (My experience in these matters is very shallow.) My problem is that the "right" method is far too expensive and time consuming for a lot of the grimy/gummy/greasy crud that we find on the coins regularly. Often times I find it necessary to do some "cleaning" just to get to the issue. Most times (if justified) I boil the coin in soapy water in a sieve to keep it off the hot bottom of the pan. This loosens the crud without marring the surface. I do not sell coins but if I ever do, I will specify that the coin has been cleaned and by what method. Other than that, its every man/woman for hi/herself.

[jallengomez]

I have been watching this thread for a while now. I have not posted anything because of redundancy. We have been told to never clean coins, but there is a difference between cleaning, and conservation. If you don't think damage can be done to a coin using mild soap and a soft brush, I must insist that it can. It's not the soap, or the brush that causes damage, but the movement of the dirt particles that can cause fine scratches on the coin's surface. Although it may not seem severe, it could cause a reduction in grade by a third party grading service, or a 'cleaned' designation all together. A lot of it has to do with what you use to view the coin. A scope would show this damage better than a loupe. Sometimes, the light direction would show it.
With all that being said you need to do what you feel you need to do to see the details on your coin. We all have our ways of doing it, and some of us have experimented more than others. The opinions expressed here are yours for the taking, or you can leave them be. I would just hate to see someone make a mistake on a coin that could have proved to be better if it wasn't messed with, or if conservation was performed skillfully.

Bob,

While I realize that cleaning coins is generally bad, and that one certainly would not want to do it to a coin that had any moderate to significant value, I do have a question. You stated that the effects may not be recognizable under a loupe, but rather with a scope. My question is that even if one cleaned an MS coin, as long as they didn't use a Brillo, would the TPGs who, as collective wisdom has it, use nothing more than their eyes or maybe a 5x be able to detect it?

Jody

[mustbebob]

Jody, You bring up a very valid point, and one that is difficult to answer with certainty. The people who grade these coins have a remarkable ability to pick out even the smallest flaws using only a loupe. After all, they do examinations hundreds of times a day. Minor scratches also also affect the luster which is a primary requirement for the grading of a coin. I have seen coin under the scope that have been returned as 'cleaned' that was difficult to verify.

[jfines69]

Please remember that it is the indivdual to decide wether or not to do anything to their coins... Look at what everyone says and make your decision... There are alot of valid points from everyone in this thread... I am glad to see a large discussion from so many especially the pros... If you have a coin that is valuable and needs conservation I believe that all TPGs offer this service... I was reading an article in Coin World about a triple die that had been certified while still being in conservation... It is a nice coin!!!

[DoubleYou]

I think only NCS (the conservation aspect of NGC) is the only one who conserves coins.

Wendell

[BadThad]

I have been watching this thread for a while now. I have not posted anything because of redundancy. We have been told to never clean coins, but there is a difference between cleaning, and conservation. If you don't think damage can be done to a coin using mild soap and a soft brush, I must insist that it can. It's not the soap, or the brush that causes damage, but the movement of the dirt particles that can cause fine scratches on the coin's surface. Although it may not seem severe, it could cause a reduction in grade by a third party grading service, or a 'cleaned' designation all together. A lot of it has to do with what you use to view the coin. A scope would show this damage better than a loupe. Sometimes, the light direction would show it.
With all that being said you need to do what you feel you need to do to see the details on your coin. We all have our ways of doing it, and some of us have experimented more than others. The opinions expressed here are yours for the taking, or you can leave them be. I would just hate to see someone make a mistake on a coin that could have proved to be better if it wasn't messed with, or if conservation was performed skillfully.

Sage advice. There's a HUGE difference between cleaning and conservation.

Conservation is a careful and scientific approach where the results can be reliably predicted. Conservation takes experience, knowledge and the proper method/chemicals/tools. The end result is a market acceptable coin. This is what NCS does and why NCS will reject coins for conservation if they feel the end-goal cannot be achieved.

Cleaning is a hap-hazard, non-calculated approach where the results are completely unpredictable and inconsistent. All the cleaner knows is that surface debris will be removed, more than likely at the cost of ruining the surfaces. The end result is a market unacceptable coin.

[BadThad]

I accept the concept expressed by Badthad but I do think that the whole matter is getting out of hand again. I have never seen damage done by mild soap and soft brush. If I ever find a very valuable coin you can bet that I will not touch it for cleaning. Meanwhile, if the choice is to throw back because you can't tell what you have I will use whatever it takes to allow me to see what I have (unless I have a weird feeling that I may have something extraordinary).

There are certainly exceptions to cleaning. It's one of the reasons this topic receives so much attention on the internet.

If a coin is completely illegible, a collector has little choice. For example, ancient coins that are completely encrusted. It either stays as a undiscernible blob of minerals or it transforms into an actual coin that can be identified.

I've had my share of Lincolns that you couldn't even make out the year. I had no choice but to harshly clean those just so I could make out the date. I'd really hate to throw a 14-D into the junk pile! I'd rather have a cleaned 1914-D than not have one.

[DoubleYou]

<<== loves to take 1914-D wheaties out of junk piles ;)

Wendell