Rainbows

[Maineman750]

It is possible that the author of the article is a member and removed it...didn't mean to hurt any feelings if so. But ...there is no such thing as "natural" toning.....it is all a result of chemical reactions, no matter how you define it, because there is no natural environment for coins other than where we choose to use or put them.

[makecents]

It is possible that the author of the article is a member and removed it...didn't mean to hurt any feelings if so. But ...there is no such thing as "natural" toning.....it is all a result of chemical reactions, no matter how you define it, because there is no natural environment for coins other than where we choose to use or put them.

I don't think so. I did find it again and it would appear they are no longer an eBay member and the article would not cross over for some reason. I tried it again and the same thing happened. The best I can tell is the artificial toning can be anything from wrapping in foil and heating in the oven to sticking coins inside of potatoes. It would seem there are a lot of methods to try and duplicate what would normally take months or years to do in minutes or days, all in the name of making a buck.

[Maineman750]

I think everyone's answers prove exactly what Will and I are saying....things like "To Me", "Best I can tell',etc just show how ambiguous the term "Natural Toning" is. Setting a coin in the sun or stored in an album or flip is no more natural than baking it in an oven or exposing it to some other chemical......even the amount of time it takes cannot be defined or proven after the fact. The idea that a TPG can decide it is all in the name of making a buck for themselves.

[Petespockets55]

...... But ...there is no such thing as "natural" toning.....it is all a result of chemical reactions, no matter how you define it, because there is no natural environment for coins other than where we choose to use or put them.

I hear what you are saying about toning is toning no matter how it occurs but I think some people consider artificial toning a type of damage, maybe because it is intentionally produced like colorizing coins.
We differentiate between MD and actual Doubled Dies because of the method that produces each (and the perceived/accepted value for each). But there are those out in some area of "Numismaticland" that still insist MD is desirable and collectible because some element on the coin is doubled. There are just different "rules" that have become acceptable to different areas of collecting.
I guess what I'm trying to say is beauty is in the eye of the beholder and those eyes like guidance or continuity.

[jfines69]

It is all in the eye of the beholder... AT versus NT is highly subjective... A coin that has been on the end of a roll will tone more than one in the center... There will be more on the side facing out because it is exposed to the elements, such as oxygen, vs the side facing in!!!

[Maineman750]

We differentiate between MD and actual Doubled Dies because of the method that produces each (and the perceived/accepted value for each). But there are those out in some area of "Numismaticland" that still insist MD is desirable and collectible because some element on the coin is doubled. .

MD versus doubled dies is not a good comparison because we know exactly what happened and it can be defined.
Artificial versus Natural toning cannot be defined because there is no such thing.

M

[makecents]

MD versus doubled dies is not a good comparison because we know exactly what happened and it can be defined.
Artificial versus Natural toning cannot be defined because there is no such thing.

M

As you are referring to a strictly technical reference here I would have to agree but toning on a large scale is still in it's infancy and folks are still learning. I do believe there is a difference and should be recognized. As time goes on the coin community will be more knowledgeable about this and will in my very humble and novice opinion be able to definitively tell the difference.

[willbrooks]

As you are referring to a strictly technical reference here I would have to agree but toning on a large scale is still in it's infancy and folks are still learning. I do believe there is a difference and should be recognized. As time goes on the coin community will be more knowledgeable about this and will in my very humble and novice opinion be able to definitively tell the difference.

I wouldn't count on it. I have shown how it is outright physically impossible that trails can be formed during the hubbing process and yet still some people believe it.

[makecents]

I wouldn't count on it. I have shown how it is outright physically impossible that trails can be formed during the hubbing process and yet still some people believe it.

Will, you could be 100% correct, just my opinion but one thing I have learned about most things in life is never say never. I could be wrong, have been before and will be again. Just an opinion....

[GrumpyEd]

On copper cents the blue toning often means it was dipped. Toning is tough, there are often natural ones that look AT and AT coins that look natural. Another easy tell tale is if you use acetone and the toning washes off, it wasn't real toning!

Here's a few links:

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/tips/48/signs-of-artificial-toning-on-coins.aspx

http://www.pcgsblog.com/ron-guth/news/the-color-of-money

https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/58133-what-you-need-to-know-characteristics-of-atnt/

https://www.google.com/search?q=sae+artificial+toning

[jfines69]

I wouldn't count on it. I have shown how it is outright physically impossible that trails can be formed during the hubbing process and yet still some people believe it.

Yes and at one time the universe rotated around the earth

[jfines69]

There are ways to tell if a coin has been artificially, by chemical means, or naturally toned... Chemicals will affect the coins surface and with the proper equipment the coins surface can be inspected for the tell tale signs of chemical damage!!!

[Maineman750]

I'd say the biggest problem I see is somebody trying to define what is natural and what is artificial....especially when they consider tab toning (sulfur) natural, but a different chemical deemed artificial.....after all they've made paper that is non reactive....why would they accept toning from paper that isn't ?
And then there is the amount of time that it takes to tone....what is natural ? one day, one week, one year ?

[Maineman750]

There are ways to tell if a coin has been artificially, by chemical means, or naturally toned... Chemicals will affect the coins surface and with the proper equipment the coins surface can be inspected for the tell tale signs of chemical damage!!!

All toning is a chemical reaction !

[Petespockets55]

All toning is a chemical reaction !

I thought some toning was a superficial coating or sheen as opposed to actual chemical reaction/bonding on an atomic level.