1909 vdb matte proof ????

[Petespockets55]

Sorry, still not a Matte Proof. TPring - Matte Proof Lincolns were made from 1909-1916 using what was believed to be a French sand blasting of the die causing the granular look. Like all proofs the pressure of the presses was higher and they were were struck multiple times giving increable sharpness and detail. The 1909 VDB is rare with only 420 minted while all others had higher manages in the low 2,000. It commands a premium usually selling for $8-20 minimum for the lowest grades and above $50,000 for higher grades. There are 3 major die markers. Downward die scratches along the nose, a long die scratch from the bust to the word LIBERTY, and crescent shaped die gouge to the right of the letter M in EPL. They are also known to have thicker planchets than regular business strikes and wide, sharpe rims. This is a known 1909 VDB MPL. When you compare the cent in question to this photo it will demonstrate that the coin in question does not resemble a Matte Proof.
WS

That's definitely a stunner WS.
Yours?

[jfines69]

Sorry, still not a Matte Proof. TPring - Matte Proof Lincolns were made from 1909-1916 using what was believed to be a French sand blasting of the die causing the granular look. Like all proofs the pressure of the presses was higher and they were were struck multiple times giving increable sharpness and detail. The 1909 VDB is rare with only 420 minted while all others had higher manages in the low 2,000. It commands a premium usually selling for $8-20 minimum for the lowest grades and above $50,000 for higher grades. There are 3 major die markers. Downward die scratches along the nose, a long die scratch from the bust to the word LIBERTY, and crescent shaped die gouge to the right of the letter M in EPL. They are also known to have thicker planchets than regular business strikes and wide, sharpe rims. This is a known 1909 VDB MPL. When you compare the cent in question to this photo it will demonstrate that the coin in question does not resemble a Matte Proof.
WS

Talk about your EYE CANDY!!!

[jfines69]

That must mean I am actually learning something Always good to know it wasn't just me not seeing what was in front of me... I was beginning to think I lost my ability to over anal eyes Thanks WS!!!

[GrumpyEd]

You guys know it but for other learners.

MPL/Matte Proof Lincolns were made from 1909-1916 (1909 had VDB and no VDB), several well known supposed 1917 MPLs have been doubted and were never verified and sometimes were called specimens, some of the redbooks list 1917 MPL but mintage 0. So there probably really were no proofs from 1917 to 1935.

In 1936 they started proofs again and made the 1936 in brilliant and in satin then they made brilliant proofs from 37-42 then stopped until 1950

[jfines69]

You guys know it but for other learners.

MPL/Matte Proof Lincolns were made from 1909-1916 (1909 had VDB and no VDB), several well known supposed 1917 MPLs have been doubted and were never verified and sometimes were called specimens, some of the redbooks list 1917 MPL but mintage 0. So there probably really were no proofs from 1917 to 1935.

In 1936 they started proofs again and made the 1936 in brilliant and in satin then they made brilliant proofs from 37-42 then stopped until 1950

Put me in the learners column cause I do not remember that info Thanks Ed!!!

[WaterSport]

Sad to say I do not own a 1909 VDB Matte proof. Only because they cost too much!! I have all the others. Anyone who collects MPL's will tell you they are very intriguing and addictive as well as expensive. But some folks have in fact cherry picked them because even sellers/dealers have a hard time with the differences between MPL's and a well struck business strike Lincoln's.

WS

[jfines69]

Sad to say I do not own a 1909 VDB Matte proof. Only because they cost too much!! I have all the others. Anyone who collects MPL's will tell you they are very intriguing and addictive as well as expensive. But some folks have in fact cherry picked them because even sellers/dealers have a hard time with the differences between MPL's and a well struck business strike Lincoln's.

WS

That's awesome info... I bet you are going to cherry one this year!!!

[uncommoncents]

the width of the rim should normally be the same between the matte proof and business strike, but if the edges are rounded and not squared, it will appear to be thinner.when 300 tons of pressure is put on a matte proof versus 60 tons on a business strike, the edges come out squared and sharp. if the matte proof planchet is larger, then i can just weigh the coin in question. how much does a matte proof coin weigh?

[uncommoncents]

the matte proof coins more often will have a fin on the rim and display a smoother edge. same die, same collar and same size. im going to put up a picture of the first coin i posted and it will be on the left side and next to it will be the coin in question on the right.

[uncommoncents]

[uncommoncents]

any questions about my 1909 vdb matte proof that i bought off ebay for $35?

[uncommoncents]

i know very little about coins as ive only been collecting them for a year and a half. if you want to know everything you need for collecting matte proofs this is the book you need.

[jfines69]

The weight, 3.1 grams nominal, would be the same regardless of a business or proof strike... If the weights are off by to much either way then the planchet was either rolled thin or thick... The weights on the solid LCs is 3.1 grams and on the plated it is 2.5 grams... As for the side by side pics both look to be the same on the edges except for more circ wear on the left coin!!!

[WaterSport]

You are correct, Flynns book is great. Now if you turn to page 22 you will see MPL's have thicker rims than business strikes. You pic shows the same thickness.

One of the biggest mistakes folks make is looking at the rims. That should be the last place you look. The first is the crescent die gauge found on page 66. Next look at page 65. Do you have the die scratch from the rear of the bust to the letter R in Liberty ??. Next on page 65 you will see the die scratches running parole to the nose. Do you have these ?? As I said, I am not seeing any of these markers on you pictures, just close ups of where the diagnostic markers should be.

And Finally if these 3 diagnostics are not ALL present, its not a MPL. Now if you do not want to believe me, or anyone else here, you have options. Send it to a Third party grading company, or maybe better yet, send it to Flynn, or Wexler, or Wiles..

WS