1909 vdb matte proof ????

[uncommoncents]

[uncommoncents]

ive got a bunch of 1909 vdb, but this one stands out above the rest, its also got some toning from the package the mint put the matte proofs in.

[CODYJ]

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/608346/1909-vdb-the-first-matte-proof-lincoln-die-diagnostics-informational-thread

[Petespockets55]

I cant even begin to offer an opinion but there is some heavy die polish lines in front of the nose similar to the ones in CodyJ's link. Hard to see on the image.

[cartester]

http://www.lincolncentcollection.com/1909vdbdiecharacteristics.html

[Petespockets55]

So does anyone else think Proof?
The links are helpful for comparison. It seems to have square edges on the rim instead of rounded (like those produced in the upsetting machine).
But I have no experience with wheat proofs at all to offer the OP. Looking forward to hearing what others think.

[WaterSport]

Sorry, its not a Matte Proof. You have none of the markers regardless of what the rims may look like. There are plenty of Hammered 1909 VDB cents like the one you have. I must admit, your one rev shot shows a crescent shape like marker, but when placed side by side your shot and a known vdb matte proof, they do not align properly.

I emailed Carl Waltz to look at this thread should you need an expert opinion. Hopefully he will respond directly or pass his opinion through me to post. He wrote the most recent book on Matte Proof Lincolns in 2015. If you do not own copy you may want to buy one.

WS

[jfines69]

Sorry, its not a Matte Proof. You have none of the markers regardless of what the rims may look like. There are plenty of Hammered 1909 VDB cents like the one you have. I must admit, your one rev shot shows a crescent shape like marker, but when placed side by side your shot and a known vdb matte proof, they do not align properly.

I emailed Carl Waltz to look at this thread should you need an expert opinion. Hopefully he will respond directly or pass his opinion through me to post. He wrote the most recent book on Matte Proof Lincolns in 2015. If you do not own copy you may want to buy one.

WS

I am glad you chimed in... I know very little to nothing about these and thought it was just me not seeing it... Thanks!!!

[WaterSport]

Carl confirmed with me that it is not a Matte proof.

WS

[uncommoncents]

I APOLOGIZE FOR POSTING THE RONG COIN. THIS IS THE COIN THAT I MEANT TO POST

[uncommoncents]

[uncommoncents]

[jfines69]

I am glad I do not buy and sell coins... I still can not see the markers... Since I have no real experience with these I will chalk it up to that... This coin looks to have some really nice toning unless I am seeing things

[TPring]

Never heard of the matte-proof coins before this thread.*

That is a beautiful coin. Nice pics, too. Even more so in that it is over 100 years old.



I would have loved for the mint to have had a little forethought and created 100th anniversary versions of the matte proof 2009VDB proofs [wheaties].



* though I do have a 1936 satin-proof

[WaterSport]

Sorry, still not a Matte Proof. TPring - Matte Proof Lincolns were made from 1909-1916 using what was believed to be a French sand blasting of the die causing the granular look. Like all proofs the pressure of the presses was higher and they were were struck multiple times giving increable sharpness and detail. The 1909 VDB is rare with only 420 minted while all others had higher manages in the low 2,000. It commands a premium usually selling for $8-20 minimum for the lowest grades and above $50,000 for higher grades. There are 3 major die markers. Downward die scratches along the nose, a long die scratch from the bust to the word LIBERTY, and crescent shaped die gouge to the right of the letter M in EPL. They are also known to have thicker planchets than regular business strikes and wide, sharpe rims. This is a known 1909 VDB MPL. When you compare the cent in question to this photo it will demonstrate that the coin in question does not resemble a Matte Proof.
WS