1978D raised or incuse anomaly?

[VAB2013]

You guys know how I have problems with incuse and raised designs. I know how they are supposed to look, like a Shield cent the EPU and VDB are incuse (but they always look raised). On Memorial cents the VDB is incuse (ditto)

So, I experimented with different angles trying to figure out if this anomaly is raised or incuse... the anomaly won and I lost

Sorry, I forgot to mention... initially I was thinking a possible dropped letter E.

[GrumpyEd]

Pics are tricky but it looks like a hit with some cratering in the second pic, the others make it look raised. You might tell best with a loupe. In any case it doesn't really look letter shaped.

[makecents]

That's cool looking Viv!! I think it is incuse. I would swear by the first two pics it was raised but I don't believe it is. I don't remember if it was on here or a different site but someone taught me to follow the shadows from the light. Pick something close to the anomaly in question that you know is raised and that is receiving the same directional light and look to see if it is lit up or shows a shadow. Then do the same with the anomaly. Look at your second pic and you will see they are showing the opposite lighting. The bottom of the letters (the top as far as the pic goes) are lit up and the same side of the anomaly is showing a shadow.

[VAB2013]

Pics are tricky but it looks like a hit with some cratering in the second pic, the others make it look raised. You might tell best with a loupe. In any case it doesn't really look letter shaped.

Thanks Ed! Well... I thought it could be a dropped E from the reverse. If the letter built up enough gunk to make the edges more pronounced? I'm not very good with a loupe either, actually I think I'm worse because my eyes don't want to focus, then when I'm finally focused and look away I'm like blinded for a few seconds. Maybe it's my astigmatism because it's getting harder to see to drive at night. Need to try some of those yellow glasses

[VAB2013]

That's cool looking Viv!! I think it is incuse. I would swear by the first two pics it was raised but I don't believe it is. I don't remember if it was on here or a different site but someone taught me to follow the shadows from the light. Pick something close to the anomaly in question that you know is raised and that is receiving the same directional light and look to see if it is lit up or shows a shadow. Then do the same with the anomaly. Look at your second pic and you will see they are showing the opposite lighting. The bottom of the letters (the top as far as the pic goes) are lit up and the same side of the anomaly is showing a shadow.

Thank you Jon... my gut feeling was incuse also when I saw it at an angle with direct light on the raised Y and the anomaly. I even thought if there was some way to drop something in the hole, to show the depth, but couldn't think of anything small enough... maybe a little sugar LOL

[makecents]

Thank you Jon... my gut feeling was incuse also when I saw it at an angle with direct light on the raised Y and the anomaly. I even thought if there was some way to drop something in the hole, to show the depth, but couldn't think of anything small enough... maybe a little sugar LOL

That's actually a good idea! take a drop of water and put on it. When you have it under the scope, the light will quickly dry it. If the last water to dry is on the anomaly, then it's incuse.

[VAB2013]

That's actually a good idea! take a drop of water and put on it. When you have it under the scope, the light will quickly dry it. If the last water to dry is on the anomaly, then it's incuse.

You are right Jon, I will try that! That's better than putting salt or sugar on a coin

Let's see what happens!

[VAB2013]

That's actually a good idea! take a drop of water and put on it. When you have it under the scope, the light will quickly dry it. If the last water to dry is on the anomaly, then it's incuse.

Okay... had to brew some coffee for this experiment!

I dropped alcohol from a Qtip onto the coin and watched it evaporate, but I could not tell that any of the alcohol was staying down in the anomaly. Took another pic at that angle again and I think it is incuse even though it looks raised in all of the pics but two. Probably just a well placed hit making me think it's a dropped E

Here is the pic I took while the alcohol was evaporating.

And one I took after the alcohol was completely evaporated... looks incuse

[makecents]

The pics you just took looks like there is a long rectangular incuse area around the anomaly. I still say just use water not alcohol. You can watch where it drys last that way.

[makecents]

Can you do full coin shots of the obverse and reverse Viv? I think there is more to this coin that what we can see in the shots you have taken. I'm not so sure there isn't a strong clash involved also!

[VAB2013]

Can you do full coin shots of the obverse and reverse Viv? I think there is more to this coin that what we can see in the shots you have taken. I'm not so sure there isn't a strong clash involved also!

Okay, I will do that and also try the water drop too. Thank you for your help Jon! Let's see what we've got here!

[VAB2013]

Can you do full coin shots of the obverse and reverse Viv? I think there is more to this coin that what we can see in the shots you have taken. I'm not so sure there isn't a strong clash involved also!

Well Jon, I'm not seeing any die clash remnants or heavy die polishing abrasions. I did however find what looks similar to trail die lines at the top of the cornice. traildies.com does not start listing trails until 1980 so not sure what this is on this 78D.

It was not easy to get the water to stay on the coin, it kept trying to pool up in the wrong spot and roll off. I did manage to keep some of it on the anomaly and you can see water in the incuse area! This was very fun to try and thank you for your ideas!

I have learned something about incuse and raised anomalies and how high magnification, lighting and angles really made a difference! Thank you very much Jon!

[makecents]

Very cool on the trail dies!! They really stand out, even with the wear! I can't imagine what they looked like on a coin in better condition. I think on the close up I was looking at in your first set of pics thinking there was a clash may have actually been the jacket. So you can see the water down in the pockets of whatever made those indentions. Congrats on the trails!! Curious about the listing.

[VAB2013]

Very cool on the trail dies!! They really stand out, even with the wear! I can't imagine what they looked like on a coin in better condition. I think on the close up I was looking at in your first set of pics thinking there was a clash may have actually been the jacket. So you can see the water down in the pockets of whatever made those indentions. Congrats on the trails!! Curious about the listing.

Thank you Jon! Yes, they do look like trail lines and that confuses me a little. The lines are thick but in the right place where we have seen trail lines on other Lincolns. This coin does have a lot of circulation wear and it seems to have been fairly worn dies when this coin was struck.

The water thing was cool Jon! You are right, it took much longer to evaporate and it was cool to see it in the holes!

[makecents]

Thank you Jon! Yes, they do look like trail lines and that confuses me a little. The lines are thick but in the right place where we have seen trail lines on other Lincolns. This coin does have a lot of circulation wear and it seems to have been fairly worn dies when this coin was struck.

The water thing was cool Jon! You are right, it took much longer to evaporate and it was cool to see it in the holes!

I would say you are correct on the trails and that would make sense that they may be wider and less pronounced with the combination of wear.