More counterfeits on Ebay

[GrumpyEd]

Complete with the tell tale blob die chip on the left wheat.

[jcuve]

Sometimes I wish they still listed buyers user names. Could PM the person. Hopefully they figure it out and return it...

[Jim_in_Juanita]

Unlikely that buyer will figure it out. buyer has already posted positive feedback - "Excellant Seller, Excellant Communication Fast Shipping AAAAA+++++" . Buyer does have a problem spelling excellent, so maybe it was a shill sale. The prior 1914-d Chinese counterfeit cent from frans_coins sold for $400 - so $185 for last 1914-d copy cent is a "steal"...

[roughrocks]

Hi, I am a new member. I just purchased a 1911-s penny on EBay. Received it yesterday and it didn't look right with a 10x loupe. Started a counterfeit search on the internet and found this great site. Also found the 1914-s penny on page 2 post #11 of this thread posted by GrumpyEd to be identical to the reverse of the 1911-s I purchased. This seller doesn't offer returns but I have started a return request with EBay. From the pictures the seller posted I didn't see any problems with the coin and thought it might be a AU50 coin. I have taken some pictures of the coin but they are not very good and am not sure if you can tell much. I will try to post them let me know if they work or if you can see the same reverse as the 1914-s in post #11. The O in one cent and the O in of America are the same as the 1914-s. There is dark colored pitting on the obverse along with a raised rim on parts of both sides. Surfaced texture has a grainy sandblasted look to it. Sure wish I could take pictures like you guys an gals do. I had not researched counterfeits before and had no idea there where so many. I started collecting when I was 10 in 1960 and collected up to about 1973 in Ohio. Then moved to California and left the collection with my parents in Ohio. Visited parents in 1998 and brought collection back to California with me. Put them away again and looked at them maybe two or three times. In Dec. 2015 got them out again and started to finish what I had started back in the sixties when I was a kid. Never dreamed there where so many counterfeits with even the common and semi rare coins. Now I need to go back and take a real close look at all the coins I have bought in the last two months. Trying to upload pictures from computer but not having any luck sorry. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTIFUL-1911-S-LINCOLN-WHEAT-PENNY-CENT-IN-2X2-HOLDER-NICE-/111886173933

[willbrooks]

Hi, I am a new member. I just purchased a 1911-s penny on EBay. Received it yesterday and it didn't look right with a 10x loupe. Started a counterfeit search on the internet and found this great site. Also found the 1914-s penny on page 2 post #11 of this thread posted by GrumpyEd to be identical to the reverse of the 1911-s I purchased. This seller doesn't offer returns but I have started a return request with EBay. From the pictures the seller posted I didn't see any problems with the coin and thought it might be a AU50 coin. I have taken some pictures of the coin but they are not very good and am not sure if you can tell much. I will try to post them let me know if they work or if you can see the same reverse as the 1914-s in post #11. The O in one cent and the O in of America are the same as the 1914-s. There is dark colored pitting on the obverse along with a raised rim on parts of both sides. Surfaced texture has a grainy sandblasted look to it. Sure wish I could take pictures like you guys an gals do. I had not researched counterfeits before and had no idea there where so many. I started collecting when I was 10 in 1960 and collected up to about 1973 in Ohio. Then moved to California and left the collection with my parents in Ohio. Visited parents in 1998 and brought collection back to California with me. Put them away again and looked at them maybe two or three times. In Dec. 2015 got them out again and started to finish what I had started back in the sixties when I was a kid. Never dreamed there where so many counterfeits with even the common and semi rare coins. Now I need to go back and take a real close look at all the coins I have bought in the last two months. Trying to upload pictures from computer but not having any luck sorry. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTIFUL-1911-S-LINCOLN-WHEAT-PENNY-CENT-IN-2X2-HOLDER-NICE-/111886173933

Welcome, Robert. What you are describing doesn't sound good, but we will need pictures to be more certain, and the pictures on the ebay link are too distant to see. If you continue to have problems uploading your pictures, you could email them to me and I will post them for you. Just click on my username and select "send email." Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[roughrocks]

Pictures of 1911-s



Ok here are some pictures of the 1911-s that is a counterfeit with the same reverse as the 1914-s posted by GrumpyEd in post #11. Last three pictures are the same but I now can't seem to be able to delete two of them. Probably not the right way to do this but maybe you can see them and maybe I will learn how to do this the right way.

[roughrocks]

More pictures of 1911-s that I believe is a counterfeit



Here are a few more pictures. Sorry they are not any better.

[grnwavdav]

Welcome to the forum. This coin does draw some concerns Robert. Here are my issues with the coin: the nine in the date looks wrong, the lack of detail in the bust (seen at the bottom of the coat/vest and eye/mouth region) are red flags, and (like you mentioned above) the O on the reverse looks wrong as well. If you are unable to resolve the matter with the seller or eBay at least you know what to look for next time. And who knows, maybe this lesson will save you more money down the road.

[willbrooks]

Welcome to the forum. This coin does draw some concerns Robert. Here are my issues with the coin: the nine in the date looks wrong, the lack of detail in the bust (seen at the bottom of the coat/vest and eye/mouth region) are red flags, and (like you mentioned above) the O on the reverse looks wrong as well. If you are unable to resolve the matter with the seller or eBay at least you know what to look for next time. And who knows, maybe this lesson will save you more money down the road.

I share David's concerns. The 9 of the date looks wrong. It looks like the font used in 1909, and on a genuine 1911, the first 1 of the "11" should be slightly higher than the other. On yours, it appears to be the other way around. Also, the mint mark looks very wrong, but without a closeup, I cannot be sure it isn't just damaged badly. Add all of this to the pitted texture, and lack of design detail, etc., it has a lot of the diagnostics of a sand cast counterfeit.

[Jim_in_Juanita]

Hello Roughrocks - good luck on getting your money back on the counterfeit 1911-s Lincoln Cent. Inform the seller that the coin have been reviewed and determined to be counterfeit. Selling counterfeit coins is against eBay policy and the the seller needs to refund your money. Inform eBay of the counterfeit sale. If you purchased this coin using a Visa Card (or other credit card), you can also work with your credit card company to dispute the charge on your card. Good Luck...

Soap Box Alert -
While I may be pessimistic, I feel every coin auction on eBay has a good change of being counterfeit. In my opinion, you need to check every coin purchase picture against certified coin pictures. You need to prove to yourself that the coin is genuine by how the coin looks and the reputation of the seller with other coin sales. Anyone can sell a coin on eBay. So if someone finds a "rare" 1909-s VDB cent at the flea market and thinks "it might be real" - they can sell it on eBay along with their other flea market treasures. Every US coin is copied and for sale at several Chinese websites for $1 to $2 plus shipping. On any given day, these Chinese copy/counterfeit coins are being sold on eBay along with a "great story" like "poor dad passed away and I am selling his collection" or "my grandfather gave me this coin when I was little" etc....

[mustbebob]

I feel every coin auction on eBay has a good change of being counterfeit. In my opinion, you need to check every coin purchase picture against certified coin pictures.

I think a statement like this is going a bit overboard. The majority of coin sales on eBay are just fine. Honest sellers and buyers are the norm on eBay, not the counterfeiters. To assume all coins are counterfeit is not fair or rational thinking. I am of the mindset that you need to know your stuff. Sites like this one make that possible.
I am also curious as to what constitutes a "certified coin picture' to you. A lot of our folks here get great coins or find some wonderful varieties that are unidentified as varieties on eBay. That's the thrill of the hunt and what makes it fun. Common sense and education can lead to good things. If you choose to be extra cautious on all eBay coin sales, then that is certainly your prerogative.
Higher value and scarce coins do indeed warrant some extra vigilance, but that is not what the majority of eBay sales are. Some sellers really don't know, so don't assume someone who is just trying to sell grandpa's old collection knows any better. I agree that feedback and prior sales should be checked. However, a lot of feedback's are generic and some people would be embarrassed to let others know that they may have made a bad purchase. Once again use common sense and educate yourself.

[Maineman750]

Have to agree with Bob, and add that I have found counterfeits at several dealers as well. I like eBay because of the buyer protection plan and have returned several using the correct channels through eBay...even a "no returns" sale means nothing if it isn't real....you don't get that at a dealer or flea market.

[Jim_in_Juanita]

Hello Mustbebob - thanks for the feedback. I have been shopping for a 1909-s & 1914-d cent, so my perception that a good percentage of eBay auctions are fraudulent may be swayed by the number of Chinese copy and altered coins for these two key dates for sale on eBay.

The point that I am trying to make for new eBay buyers is that just because the Lincoln Cent has the date you want, there should be no assumption that the coin is genuine until you have researched how the cent should look in desired condition and reviewed the seller to see if they have any numismatic experience selling coins.

In regards to "certified coin picture", when shopping for a Lincoln Cent - I search eBay for the desired date & mint mark and then sort by "Highest Shipping & Price". I look at the search results & pay special attention to the PCGS & NGC certified coins with a close-up of the coin. I save a sample of various grades to my "Watch List" in an effort to become familiar with how the date and mint mark are shaped and general overall appearance of the coin. I also refer to my favorite photo collection of Lincoln Cents by David Brink at http://www.brinkpad.org/coins/nggallery/thumbnails

Some current old Chinese copy/counterfeits currently for sale:
1909-s ebay seller = lynrain0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222017927554?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

1909-s vdb ebay seller = landavi_lj4uvmm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-Lincoln-Cent-Wheat-Penny-Nice-Key-Date-You-Grade-/191800932384?hash=item2ca839f820:g:LLwAAOSwe7BWtqny

[mustbebob]

Thank you for expanding on your comments. I can't argue with a lot of your logic, especially concerning scarce dates. My comment was based on your assertion that 'Every coin auction on eBay has a good chance on being counterfeit'. That simply isn't true. Not everyone is looking for scarce dates. We both are saying the same thing when we talk about education and knowing what you are buying. The new eBayers need to definitely be vigilant and at times, it doesn't hurt to remind the older collectors of the same things. Thanks again for your comments.