What is the anomaly at EPU - 2014P

[VAB2013]

onecent1909, please PM me your address and I will mail them to you. No need to send them back to me. Thank you for your help!

[onecent1909]

So I have a dumb question to add. If magnification makes incuse look raised, then why doesn't it affect gouges the same way. For instance pic EPU 5 shows some distinct gouges.

play on lights and shadows.... I have no idea....some of the "things" look raised to me..

The funny thing is, when I adjust my eyes to see the EPU as incuse, then the gouges look raised.

Me too!

[VAB2013]

The funny thing is, when I adjust my eyes to see the EPU as incuse, then the gouges look raised.

Thanks Jody, we could use a good laugh. How exactly do you do this thing with your eyes?? Never mind

[Roller]

roller.. I am not disagreeing with you.. I just do not understand and my way of thinking is leading me to a different conclusion.... OK maybe I do disagree with you..LOL
here is my thoughts

dent/gouge on the die would have hit the letters first denting them leaving a raised area in the letters on the coin through all 3 letters.. so I think we can all agree no die dent/gouge..
.
now hub dent/gouge....hubs make more than 1 die..EX: the master hub doubling from 1972.. around 30% to 50% of the 1972 cents I have heard are master hub doubling.. because it effects many dies...
if it is hub dent/gouge there would be many dies with this "thing" at the exact same place/depth/ and length...
bussyeye said he has seen plenty of them on 2014's.. the answer would be from him... are they EXACTLY the same place depth, and length as this one?..do they effect more than 1 die?
.
PSD .... the letters are sunk into the coin.. the pressure of a hit on the field that does not hit hard enough to go down into the letters may or may not alter the edge of the letters...if you say they would be effected....
and it was a hub dent/gouge.. the letters would also be damaged on the hub..transfer to the die... and then onto the coins....
.
upon blowing the images up the R has some "damage" to it but not the U or the I
.
If no one else can figure this out..I want to try...
VAB2013 and BUSYEYE.. I would like to see a copy of your coins.....I want to understand this "thing"
If you would let me...PM me so I can give you an address.. or I can send you an E-MAIL with a copy of a UPS tag that you can put on a box and send it to me... I would return it UPS style back to you...

How can a hit not be hard enough to affect both sides of a device and not obstruct/deface the borders?

[onecent1909]

roller... I don't know... that's why I want to see one in hand..
With the letters sunk into the coin... the dent would lower the field... and the field touching the letters should bend down..leaving a u shaped bowing at the letters edge???..UGH.. to confusing...
but again... not a die dent, would be on multiple dies if on the hub.....I still say PSD...
.
BUT I will have an open mind when I get Vivien's coin.. I will LOOK, EXAMINE, PICTURE, and REPORT what I come up with...

[atarian]

Do i see a nice die crack from P of PLURIBUS to top trim of the shield west of the strike through?

[onecent1909]

OHHHH.. I hate myself......
could also be a strike through... which Maineman said....but I doubt..
metal on die struck would be bent by the letters leaving marks into the metal where the letters are at...
nope.. I don't think its strike through.....(now I don't hate myself as much)
still can't get my mind around it.... like the thread on the rim burs ... just don;t understand it.....

[VAB2013]

Do i see a nice die crack from P of PLURIBUS to top trim of the shield west of the strike through?

Yes, it is a die crack. The 2014's are full of them, more of them and larger ones than the 2013's. That's about it so far except for some nice trail dies at the date and Liberty.

[VAB2013]

OHHHH.. I hate myself......
could also be a strike through... which Maineman said....but I doubt..
metal on die struck would be bent by the letters leaving marks into the metal where the letters are at...
nope.. I don't think its strike through.....(now I don't hate myself as much)
still can't get my mind around it.... like the thread on the rim burs ... just don;t understand it.....

Easy tiger... don't beat yourself up! You'll get some answers for us soon enough

[coop]

Viv: Rotate the coin 90 degrees to the left. That usually make the incuse show better that way. Coin contact damage only affect the surface. The incuse devices are deep into the coin and not affected unless the hit is stronger so it does reach the incuse devices bottom. The rules change on incuse devices compared with raised devices. Same way a incuse machine doubling enlarges the devices and a incuse doubled die is reduced in size of the devices. So knowing the difference helps us to understand why they look the way they do.

[jallengomez]

Thanks Jody, we could use a good laugh. How exactly do you do this thing with your eyes?? Never mind

You ever stare at those old 3-D posters that were popular years ago? Something like that. You have to start by crossing your eyes a bit. LOL

[VAB2013]

Well, besides the round plating blisters I have been seeing, here are a few longer ones in United and States. Maybe this anom at EPU is just a highly defined plating blister with sharp points??

[VAB2013]

You ever stare at those old 3-D posters that were popular years ago? Something like that. You have to start by crossing your eyes a bit. LOL

LOL... yes actually I did do that with 3-D posters. I have to squint and cross though, must be my astigmatism. Just picking on you Jody

[VAB2013]

Update before mailing coin to onecent

Ok... based on what you all have taught me in this tread so far regarding incuse and raised devices. Here goes... I found that I have one loupe that does show EPU as incuse. Upon closer examination I found that the anom does appear to be some type of deep scratch probably PSD and it does penetrate the U and the R of EPU. But here is my next question about this anom... I am seeing this same size and shaped scratch on various other places of other 2014 coins.

I lightened my camera exposure to try to show this anom a bit clearer, pic attached.

I feel very unqualified to write this post and was hesitant to do so. I am still going to send this to onecent for his expert opinion, just wanted to try and give it my best shot!! Thanks everyone for hanging in there with this thread, I hope everyone gets something out of it besides just me learning bits and pieces of more basics

[Roller]

Ok... based on what you all have taught me in this tread so far regarding incuse and raised devices. Here goes... I found that I have one loupe that does show EPU as incuse. Upon closer examination I found that the anom does appear to be some type of deep scratch probably PSD and it does penetrate the U and the R of EPU. But here is my next question about this anom... I am seeing this same size and shaped scratch on various other places of other 2014 coins.

I lightened my camera exposure to try to show this anom a bit clearer, pic attached.

I feel very unqualified to write this post and was hesitant to do so. I am still going to send this to onecent for his expert opinion, just wanted to try and give it my best shot!! Thanks everyone for hanging in there with this thread, I hope everyone gets something out of it besides just me learning bits and pieces of more basics

That picture certainly tells a different story. Hard to believe it is the same coin. Still, the anom appears to be in relief and if it is, the damage has to be on the die, i.e., gouge.