Error Lamination | 1941P Improper Alloy Mix (Woody) with LAM question

[VAB2013]

This 41P is a Woody with a lam on the reverse. But why didn't the P of EPU strike well and the lam appears to be on top of it?

Where the lam appears to be somewhat lifting, there is a crack along the same line that pretty much goes RTR. Sorry for all of the photos, I couldn't get far away and still see the details. Pic #1 shows the P of EPU.

[Roller]

Not sure I understand your question Viv. What I see is a "lifting" of the lamination peel (still attached) at the P that appears to have been struck well enough.

[Petespockets55]

That is one neat lam Viv.
I think the P is weakly struck because the lam fell off in that area.

[jfines69]

Nice woody and lamination... The P looks funny because the metal is raising up... If you were to peel the metal back you would see the P under it... What looks like a crack to looks like the edge of the lamination beginning to break away from the planchet... Your rev from the line east looks to all be part of a major lamination issue... There are spots were the metal is cracking and peeling up... It also appears there is a large lamination peel starting on the obv on the shoulder headed ENE across the bow tie ans ending just north of the 1!!!

[VAB2013]

Not sure I understand your question Viv. What I see is a "lifting" of the lamination peel (still attached) at the P that appears to have been struck well enough.

Thank you Roller! What puzzles me is, where the part of the P is missing appears to be on the other side of where the lam is starting to peel away. Maybe I am just not seeing it correctly?

[VAB2013]

That is one neat lam Viv.
I think the P is weakly struck because the lam fell off in that area.

Thank you Cliff! Well, what I just typed to Roller is why I am confused because to me it doesn't look like that part is part of the lam. This just doesn't fit the lam's that I've seen so far. Normally, the devices look normal and the lam, if it falls out, takes a chunk out of them. Also, this is the first one I've seen with the "crack" So... I'm feeling like a little lam dummy right now LOL

[Petespockets55]

Maybe part of the answer lies in how poorly struck the lower portion of all the letters are in EP and the lam intersecting this area.

[makecents]

That is extremely cool looking Viv, nice find!!

[VAB2013]

Maybe part of the answer lies in how poorly struck the lower portion of all the letters are in EP and the lam intersecting this area.

Thanks Cliff, I'm trying to think basics here. Okay, the planchet has an improper alloy mix and because of that there is a linear portion of the metal that is starting to separate and lift up. Also along that linear portion there is a crack visible in some places that if it were not for a few spots, would be RTR. Crack in the metal not a die crack. Where I see an anomaly in the P of EPU is right along that line where the crack is going (or may actually be cracked there at the rim, can't really tell). I wondered if that is why the P doesn't look right to me.

[VAB2013]

Nice woody and lamination... The P looks funny because the metal is raising up... If you were to peel the metal back you would see the P under it... What looks like a crack to looks like the edge of the lamination beginning to break away from the planchet... Your rev from the line east looks to all be part of a major lamination issue... There are spots were the metal is cracking and peeling up... It also appears there is a large lamination peel starting on the obv on the shoulder headed ENE across the bow tie ans ending just north of the 1!!!

Thank you very much Jim! This one has been in my "question" pile for a long time because of the "P" and I couldn't take good enough pics of it to ask.

That spot on the obverse, I think it's just a line, like PSD, here's a close up. Sorry pic is kind of dark, the daylight is gone!

[VAB2013]

That is extremely cool looking Viv, nice find!!

Thank you very much Jon! I have had a few chuckles today... going through this box of questions from a few years back. Boy did I mess up on some RPM's! Some of them were so wrong I couldn't believe how bad I used to be

[jfines69]

Thank you very much Jim! This one has been in my "question" pile for a long time because of the "P" and I couldn't take good enough pics of it to ask.

That spot on the obverse, I think it's just a line, like PSD, here's a close up. Sorry pic is kind of dark, the daylight is gone!

The pic is a little to dark to tell... Maybe if I turn all the lights off it will simulate no sunshine Sorry I couldn't resist being a not so wise a#^ Is it ok if I download the image and lighten it up a bit??? Also could you get a close up of the shoulder along the back side of the jacket???

[jfines69]

To me it looks as if the peeling started due to a hit on the P... The edge is raised slightly causing the vertical bar of the P to become somewhat invisible... The crack is on the coin itself and not the die... The crack is caused by the separation along a weak area in the metal try to envision fault lines and earthquakes... The wood grain appearance comes from the boundaries of the different sections in the coin whether it is from a poor or contaminated metal mix... Those boundaries are weak and susceptible to separation and cracking... Hope that helps a little!!!

[VAB2013]

The pic is a little to dark to tell... Maybe if I turn all the lights off it will simulate no sunshine Sorry I couldn't resist being a not so wise a#^ Is it ok if I download the image and lighten it up a bit??? Also could you get a close up of the shoulder along the back side of the jacket???

Sure Jim, you are always welcome to download my photos, thank you for offering to do that! Yes, I will dig it back out and see what I can do with that shoulder/jacket close up! Thank you Bud!

[VAB2013]

To me it looks as if the peeling started due to a hit on the P... The edge is raised slightly causing the vertical bar of the P to become somewhat invisible... The crack is on the coin itself and not the die... The crack is caused by the separation along a weak area in the metal try to envision fault lines and earthquakes... The wood grain appearance comes from the boundaries of the different sections in the coin whether it is from a poor or contaminated metal mix... Those boundaries are weak and susceptible to separation and cracking... Hope that helps a little!!!

Thank you Jim that does help me understand better how this happened! I appreciate you keeping my mind from going haywire!