1911-D RPM#3 and RPM#6

[eaxtellcoin]

Hello Folks,
I kind of don't want to start this topic but it needs to be asked.

I've been going around with a few folks on this topic and I want to ask everyone here.. anyone that has a copy of the so called RPM#3 in a slab or raw to send me a pic of the "E" under ONE. If your coin has sever die movement/pull then I believe the coin is RPM#6 not #3. Also for anyone of those folks that have one slabbed as RPM#3. I want you to check what I said on the REV and check to see if your coin is actually separated on the top serif like the ones in ALL the publications.

I would like to see the original coin everyone would at this point.

Does anyone have an example with a split upper serif like the photo's - what I mean by split is you can see the division line between the serifs. One is higher than the other. I would like to see this. Up load photo's so we can see this.

If your coin has this - look on the REV - does it at all have die pull under the "E" of ONE? - If no one has an idea of this I will post a pic.

Thanks for help with this. The pic on the left is stage "C" the pic on the right is stage "B"

Sorry I should have posted the correct "E" in the first place. My bad, long week...

Eric

[willbrooks]

Uh oh. Hide the women and children.

[WaterSport]

Alright Eric, Here you go.

My coin. AU 53. And of course if you want to see it in hand I can easily mail it to you.

Also check out this coin on PCGS. https://www.pcgs.com/cert/30926541


Bob
Screen Shot 2020-05-18 at 9.16.06 PM.pngScreen Shot 2020-05-18 at 9.17.52 PM.jpg

[WaterSport]

Another pic to compare ...are these die cracks the SAME ?, or is it just the lighting?, or are they different but oh so similar ???

comparison.jpg

[stoneman227]

Here ya go Eric. http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...ghlight=1911-d
I will check the coin when I get home but it looks to have all you described.

John

[willbrooks]

My example, which is slabbed as RPM3, has the die deterioration under the E. That said, I still have not seen any evidence that rpm6 isn't just a later die stage of rpm3. Have you come up with something to show this?

[WheatsRATreat]

I've picked a few of the #6's links below

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?37489-NEW-1911-D-D-RPM006-CW-Rotated-RPM-NGC-MS61BN&highlight=1911-d

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?36692-First-Pick-Using-Collectors-com-1911-D-D-RPM-FS-503-(FS-012-82)&highlight=1911-d

[kloccwork419]

I think RPM-6 is RPM-3. The RPM-3 on VV isnt a staight on shot. Its tilted up. If you make a overlay with the coin in the link from Wheats "RPM-6", it lines right up with WRPM-3. If you ask me, thats why Wexler doesnt have an "RPM-6" crossover in his listings. Because its RPM-3. Even CC has it crossed over as RPM-3 & 6. Dont try to match up with the RPM-3 on VV, its angled up, that why RPM-6 looks lower

[willbrooks]

I wonder why such a glaringly obvious die marker isn't mentioned for either variety in any of the listings.

[stoneman227]

I think RPM-6 is RPM-3. The RPM-3 on VV isnt a staight on shot. Its tilted up. If you make a overlay with the coin in the link from Wheats "RPM-6", it lines right up with WRPM-3. If you ask me, thats why Wexler doesnt have an "RPM-6" crossover in his listings. Because its RPM-3. Even CC has it crossed over as RPM-3 & 6. Dont try to match up with the RPM-3 on VV, its angled up, that why RPM-6 looks lower

I once did a study on how the angle of a coin in relation to the film/sensor plane would affect the visual relationship of the date and the mintmark. The photos of 1911-D rpm#3 on VV were what I had in mind.
These are three identical composite illustrations of the same coin. The only difference is where I placed a horizontal line to show how the angle of the coin in relation to the sensor visually changes the location of the mintmark.
1912 s_edited-1.jpg
1912 s c_edited-1.jpg
1912 s b_edited-1.jpg

John

[centMD]

Here's my example. I'm going to send it off tomorrow to a friend for better photos, but here's what I was able to capture using different light sources and angles.

Dan

1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (1aa).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (2a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (3a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (4a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (5a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (6a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (7a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (8aa).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (9a).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (10a).jpg

[centMD]

If you look extremely carefully you can see follow the upper mint mark outline quite well.

1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (2aa).jpg1911-D RPM-003 - RPM-006 (2aaa).jpg

[eaxtellcoin]

One item I would like to mention about over lays. We are discussing an Upper Serif(s) on the OBV. Do you actually believe you can line this up perfectly?

I hope I don't get logged off again.. OBV - #3's upper serif appears more clockwise up than RPM#6. Plus I still have not seen one of the six #6's i've owned that have a clear defining upper and lower serif / split. mine are all on top of each other. Not split.

REV - I and many others have asked Dr Wiles if the REV has the die crack. The answer is NO plain and simple. So for the folks that believe they are the same - does the plate coin have the Die pull under the "E" of one?? This would presumably link the two dies. I don't have that answer.

Finish - we need something that links the two dies. I have been told the OBV die is early die state on the Wexler Coin for RPM#3, the REV die is Late - Die crack. The copies of #6 I own now also appear to be Early Die state OBV - Late Die state REV. So that leads us back to the plate coin for RPM#3. Is the dissertation of Die state correct by Dr. Wiles? I think he of all people can figure out die state. Doesn't he show the plate coin as LDS OBV?? Die to Die. Don't hate me folks. I'm just saying #3 may be as rare if not exactly like 1943-D RPM#13.

[willbrooks]

Eric, of all the people I know, I would think you would understand how much different an RPM can look in different die states.

[centMD]

One more thing to add from me. Here is a photo I believe was taken prior (possibly considerably so) to the photos on Variety Vista. It has 2 things which indicate it may be of Paul's original coin. A small carbon spot above the mint mark, and a small stain under the 9. Both of these look to be present on careful examination of the RPM-003 photo on Variety Vista. Additional spots and maybe even a lamination issue seem to have been gained over time.

Dan

1911-D RPM-003 Photo Original Coin.jpeg1911-D RPM-003 Photo Original Coin (1).jpg