olympic quarter doubling

[Alxlgh]

here is the best pictures of the whole coin i can get, hope it helps

[thecentcollector]

I'm going with counter-clash on this one.

[uglycent]

I am not familiar with the die making process on quarters, are the dies single squeeze type or do they still use the old method?

[DoubleYou]

This is machine doubling. When machine doubling affects incuse die elements, it looks very much like a doubled die, as you all have so very well noticed ;)

[kloccwork419]

How do you concider this MD?..I never seen any MD like this before. You have an example somewhere?

[Bear - Boy117]

thats pretty cool nice find

Barett

[DoubleYou]

How do you concider this MD?..I never seen any MD like this before. You have an example somewhere?

Consider this example, albeit not quite as dramatic, yet relevant. http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Arti...rticleId=17345

We must consider the process by which this coin was made. As we know, a coin face is a positive of the negative die face. Anything that is raised on the coin is incuse on the die. So when we talk about large separation of raised elements on a coin and notching, etc., we are talking about doubling on the die. However when we see machine doubling, which is an action of the higher field of the die rather than the incuse design elements in the die on the coin face, we see a flattening of the design that appears to be doubled. So a doubled die is raised doubling, while a machine doubled coin shows flattened doubling. When the design elements on the coin are incuse, that means that those elements are raised on the die. That means that if we have the bouncing machine doubling come along, the thing that is going to wreak the damage in this area is going to be the incuse design elements before the field. This means that machine doubling in such a case will act almost exactly like real hub doubling. In fact, a true doubled die in this area would cause the field to be doubled, not the letters, which would make the letters thinner, like what we observed on the recent 2011 DDR with the lettering in the ribbon. This action of the doubled die is akin to MD in the fact that it robs from a design element to create its doubling. So as you can see, everything looks exactly opposite between MD and die doubling when it affects an incuse design element.

[liveandievarieties]

So well said Wendell- Thank you. Incuse doubling still screws with my head, hurts to think about it!

[kloccwork419]

It still looks like too much of a spread to me to be MD. Im not talking about the shifting look at the lower part. Maybe its the lighting but I dont see how the letters can end up looking like 2 separate images. Almost like it was struck twice.

Nice explanation though Wendell. I understand what your saying but I dont see where its similar to this one.

[Roller]

Good, concise, explanation Wendell and the article is very helpful. And everything is clear as "mud". I suggested that this is MD to start with but I can't wrap my mind around the explanation of incuse device MD. This is a widely separated image in an area where there should be only field. If it was struck by a raised portion of the die (the incuse device) how does it wind up to be raised, entirely separated from the primary device? I can understand how the primary incuse device would be narrowed and distorted but not how a separated secondary device could be raised.

[mikediamond]

I suppose it could be machine doubling if the die bounced high enough to carry its raised letters completely out of the incuse impressions they just created on the coin and then landed lightly on the field between the letters. As others have said, a close examination would be necessary to eliminate other possibilities. It's a fascinating specimen.

[jallengomez]

Thanks Mike. Would a counter-clash be a possibility?

[mikediamond]

Probably not. You see, if the raised letters on the die face penetrated a foreign object, and that foreign object was struck again (transferring the letters back to the field portion of the die), those letters would be at least as broad as the normal letters. The counterclash would therefore feature broad letters, not the narrow ones we see. But a light impact would leave narrow letters, since the apices of the raised letters on the die face are narrower than the base.

[jallengomez]

Thanks Mike. Even if MD with a high bounce, why wouldn't the letters also be as broad as the original, and why wouldn't they also be incuse like the original instead of what appears to be raised?

[DoubleYou]

Raised? I think that's an optical illusion.