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Hi, what i mean buy that is physical silver and copper, if you are referring to what i call e-notes of silver, is a waste of time and to risky and of course you unload when you think it is at it's high, sort of like a game, everything is regulated by the stock market and politicians. I still think silver might hit a nice low yet, maybe even go as low as 18 to 15 dollars an ounce, so i would not buy anything yet because you are wasting your money right now. allso keep in mind silver will rebound and when it does i believe the 40ty to 50ty dollar mark. What i like to buy when it comes to silver is sterling(925) junk because i melt and make silver rounds and bars and in order to do this you will also need pure silver shot (999) and borax and a nice hot torch or melting system. the torch works good up to 3 oz's.and of course a nice crucible to melt in and molds. fun stuff
(925) 925% silver and 7.5% copper= sterling silver, it is cheaper to buy this in junk then to buy 999, not much difference in price, maybe a dollar or two in selling. I sold a lot of this this year that i made, people love it, i call them cave man rounds lol but silver is silver no matter what form it is in.
GeorgeComment
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I agree with Chuck. Besides, copper takes far too much room for storage to make it practical. Personally, I'd rather have a couple one oz bars than a pallet. Plus copper production is through the roof:
VERDI-CARE™ ALL METAL CONSERVATION FLUIDComment
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Why don't you guys in Texas pump more out and lower the prices for us ?
ahhhhh, not just texas, the entire nation has a great reserve! someday we'll get real and go after it! rant over.
Comment
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It is very easy to say that certain products future value will be a certain dollar value because it has never been in high demand. Only time and the turn of events will determine that demand and price. As George said you have to factor in inflation into the future cost. I personally would never say that certain products would never be sold at higher prices in the future. A classic example is sugar prices. Just a few years ago one could buy a 50lb bag for $14.00 but today the same bag of granulated sugar is $22.73 wholesale. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever see this occurring. There have been many sources of sugar added to the market since 2007 to 2013 but that did not halt the increase in the price. So I would like to hear what others think about the future of copper bullion.
LucienComment
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That's a tough one. First of all, we will never run out of any commodity on this planet; I don't care what the naysayers state. It's all a matter of how easy it is to obtain said commodity. Right now the oil that the world uses is for the most part easily obtained from wells. That will change in the next century or so as those wells are tapped dry and alternative supplies need to be found such as oil sands and shale. Those supplies are readily available however two things prevent them from being developed. The first is that the return on an oil well is far greater than that of the aforementioned alternatives; you pump crude straight out of the ground with no additional processes required. To get oil from oil sands for example you pretty much have to build a refinery for the sand that basically "squeezes" the oil from the sand; a huge upfront investment with abysmal returns as you need a lot more oil sand to get the equivalent of one barrel of oil. That is the second factor preventing development at this time.
The same is true for any other commodity; copper for example. It's readily available at this time but the question is not if the price will go up, but how long will it take to do so? One needs to look at when the easily obtained supplies will run out and force the use of more cost and labor intensive mining processes. When that happens even if demand stagnates or falls the price will still rise as the cost of production skyrockets. The thing with copper is I don't see that happening for a long time as it is available far more readily than oil, for example, and has much cheaper mining and refining costs. That and the demand for copper is not nearly as large as that for oil.
Any counterarguments to this?Comment
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I'd never go out of my way to purchase copper bars or rounds. I'm content just sorting out the pre 1982 cents during the search for varieties. Can't exactly lose at face value.Comment
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So... I take from this thread that copper cents and scrap copper are the way to go. Do not invest in bars or rounds but invest in copper because it is going to increase in value? Invest but its Just not a good long term investment? I think im confused...lol...Comment
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People make a lot of money on short term investing but it only works if they have good timing.
I read stuff from many people that think metals could be a great long term investment but even the PMs gold and silver aren't always the greatest long term investment. Sure silver coins saved since 1964 are roughly 17-20 times face. Everything depends on when bought, if bought near the highs in the 80s it's still at a loss. A hoard of silver since 1964 might have been stolen or required a place to store it and it cost face value in 1964 which could have a bought a lot in 1964. (it wasn't free to hoard it)
If the same money was in safe investments like savings bonds that had no risk other than a complete default of the US it did similar to PMs. Today's rates are low but look over the long term. $1 in bonds in 1964 even the EE bonds they doubled in different cycles... some rough numbers but the first about 3 cycles they doubled in (roughly) 10 years then one at 18 years. So $1 in bonds since 1964 equals $2 in 1974- $4 in 1984 - $8 in 1994 $16 in 2012 then are about 2 years into the next bond. So it's right in line with a hoard of silver even if it was saved at face and required no storing or risk of being stolen and those bonds have some tax benefits that PMs don't have.
If they were in 30 year bonds they made more than that. In a mix of bonds or stocks they might be much better, in the right stock better or the wrong stock worse.
Even if you compare saving $20 gold pieces if saved at face value before 1932 compared to the same money put in bonds or even at the variable rates and include compounding interest over that entire period it beats what gold did over the period.
There are many considerations, today's rates are low but look over long term and it won't be like today. We have no idea what PMs will do over the long term. Looking far long term who knows, they may be robot mining deep earth (core of earth is full of gold) or mining under the sea or even space or they may care less about gold because things change long term. In 1932 nobody guessed we would have nuclear power or space travel. Nobody knows what the future will bring.
They're printing money today but some of it fills a void from already past inflation that a big inflationary period was when the housing bubble formed. For some things this may become a deflationary period. Over time US interest and inflation seem to track GDP growth more than anything else and GDP growth isn't big now.
Just trying to be the devils advocate to the "invest in bullion".
I'm not saying it's foolish but it's all timing and not easy to say what's best.Comment
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Very good thoughts! This is kind of what I was looking for... maybe I should have started a thread on investment strategies... I'm rather young and have a new baby on the way so it has made me start thinking of long term investing for her.Comment
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I think my point in my original post was misunderstood. Copper as a metal is fine to invest in as long as you are buying it in large weight volumes. Buying one, five, and ten ounce pieces of copper with pretty designs is not an investment - it's collecting. The prices for these pieces are ten - even twenty - times the value of the metal, and the likelihood that the value of the metal will exceed the price paid for the pieces is unlikely in our lifetime. Anyone who has ever done any research knows that the cost of manufacture is wrapped up in the price of the bullion, so naturally buying bullion (as an investment) that has the highest value is the way to go, because it takes a far lower percentage move upward to cover the premium you paid to have the piece. Copper is a crappy "investment" in small quantities...end of story. It's a fact. Your best investment is in one and five ounce platinum and palladium pieces. They have the most movement (other than gold) in the market and stand to gain (or lose) far more than buying a few ounces of copper, which will likely never gain metal value to the point of being worth more than their current 'retail' value.Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
[URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]Comment
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"Large weight volume" being hundreds of pounds to tons. Not ounces. That's the only way to keep the premiums from chewing you alive in copper.Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
[URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]Comment
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