How much is my coin worth?

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  • ray_parkhurst
    Paid Member

    • Dec 2011
    • 1855

    #1

    How much is my coin worth?

    The recent discussion of variety valuation got me thinking that each of us likely uses a different algorithm for valuing varieties for sale or purchase. I'd be very interested to hear how my fellow specialist collectors (SCs) do this, as I am sure my methods are both different and potentially either more or less "accurate" than those of other SCs.

    My belief is there is a fairly fixed valuation for a variety that depends on a number of relatively objective "baseline" factors. Then on top of this there is a set of both objective and subjective "market" factors that either increase or decrease the baseline. My further belief is this baseline value is what should be published in the valuation guides, and that this gives a starting point for setting a final selling price when the additional factors are considered.

    Of course the concept of "worth" is a variable as well, since we are a widely-ranging group of folks with an even wider range of "individual" factors that come into play when deciding how much to pay for a coin, or even to want it at all. So up-front I'd like to define the target of this valuation discussion. Let's say that the baseline value published in the price guide, and in consideration of the market factors, is such that when a coin is offered for that price, it will be of interest to 10% of SCs, and that at least 3 SCs would bid on the coin. If you have a different suggestion for the valuation target, please speak up.

    Considering all this, I would make the following definitions:

    price = (baseline value) x (market factors)

    worth = price x (individual factors)

    where the baseline value is based on mostly objective factors related to the coin itself, the additional factors are a combination of objective and subjective factors related to the market, and the individual factors are mostly subjective factors that determine how interested a given buyer is in purchasing the coin at the offered price.

    To explore this, I'd like to know how the 1956-D RPM#1 shown below should be priced. What should its baseline value be? What factors do you consider when setting the baseline? What additional factors do you consider that would skew the baseline based on the current market conditions?

    I believe the discussion of individual factors should be left out of this study, since they are personal as well as extremely variable. This is the reason I set the target audience of 10% interested, and at least 3 ready bidders. For this discussion, please put your own individual factors aside and focus on the baseline and market factors only.

    By the way, at the end of this discussion I will put this coin up for sale at the price we will hopefully agree on.


    Last edited by ray_parkhurst; 03-20-2013, 12:19 PM.
    Builder of Custom Coin Photography Setups. PM me with your needs or visit http://macrocoins.com
  • liveandievarieties
    TPG & Market Expert
    • Feb 2011
    • 6049

    #2
    My own method at derriving value is more basic. It basically consists of price histories in relation to the grade of the specific coin in question. When it's something really obscure, I pick a crazy price and hang it out there- seeing the attention the coin garners gives me an idea of what to lower the price to to expect a sale. Each coin is different and I don't know that I could really explain a formula that fits all. I do like the scientific manner in which you're approaching it though Ray.
    [B][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=2]Chris & Charity Welch- [COLOR=red]LIVEAN[/COLOR][COLOR=black]DIE[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]VARIETIES[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Purveyors of Modern Treasure [/FONT]

    Comment

    • ray_parkhurst
      Paid Member

      • Dec 2011
      • 1855

      #3
      Originally posted by liveandievarieties
      My own method at derriving value is more basic. It basically consists of price histories in relation to the grade of the specific coin in question. When it's something really obscure, I pick a crazy price and hang it out there- seeing the attention the coin garners gives me an idea of what to lower the price to to expect a sale. Each coin is different and I don't know that I could really explain a formula that fits all. I do like the scientific manner in which you're approaching it though Ray.
      Thanks Chris! My opinion is that grade of the specific coin is a baseline factor, and price history is a market factor, by my definitions above. Are there any other baseline or market factors to consider?
      Builder of Custom Coin Photography Setups. PM me with your needs or visit http://macrocoins.com

      Comment

      • liveandievarieties
        TPG & Market Expert
        • Feb 2011
        • 6049

        #4
        Absolutely!

        Many of the coins I sell are the finest graded at PCGS. Considering the appeal of the coin in top grade is easy, pinpointing a sale price is nearly impossible- which is why I like auctions so much.

        If I have 2 coins- one a 1956-D/D RPM #1, FS-501 in MS-66, its around a $300 coin, but there are a dozen or more slabbed in that top grade. So the demand is somewhat limited.
        Recently we sold a 1951-D FS-521 (die chip in date), it was slabbed AU58 by PCGS and is the single finest example. We didn't want to undersell this coin so we placed a $600 reserve. The coin ended up selling for $1350 because the top registry set holders HAD to have it!

        I'm not sure how you would calculate that, any ideas?
        [B][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=2]Chris & Charity Welch- [COLOR=red]LIVEAN[/COLOR][COLOR=black]DIE[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]VARIETIES[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
        [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Purveyors of Modern Treasure [/FONT]

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        • seal006
          Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 2330

          #5
          Ray, just like with my thread, it is next to impossible to determine price history on raw coins as opposed to slabbed. The only real reference for raw coins is eBay and a few websites that still have the prices listed for sold items. You would need to come up with a formula for the amount of value a slab brings to a coin. Which was what I was trying to get to in my thread. I also feel like there would also need to be a formula for values per grade. Lets say you have a 1960-D RPM #1, and you feel it grades at a strong MS62, but if price history research only yeilds results for slabbed MS65 you would need both of the formulas I refer to in order to come up with an approximate value of your coin.
          "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

          Comment

          • liveandievarieties
            TPG & Market Expert
            • Feb 2011
            • 6049

            #6
            None of those are constants though. Considering the population of a top pop can help arrive at a realistic sale price, but the value of a slab, as a straight across multiplier isn't going to work.

            I do assess values every day, sometimes things sell right away, either becuase I underpriced it, or the right person happened upon it immediately. I think ultimately, each coin has to be judged on it's own merits. While the effort from several members has been admirable, I don't think there's a single formula that will lead to market values on all varieties, not like regular issues.
            [B][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=2]Chris & Charity Welch- [COLOR=red]LIVEAN[/COLOR][COLOR=black]DIE[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]VARIETIES[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
            [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Purveyors of Modern Treasure [/FONT]

            Comment

            • ray_parkhurst
              Paid Member

              • Dec 2011
              • 1855

              #7
              Originally posted by liveandievarieties
              Absolutely!

              Many of the coins I sell are the finest graded at PCGS. Considering the appeal of the coin in top grade is easy, pinpointing a sale price is nearly impossible- which is why I like auctions so much.

              If I have 2 coins- one a 1956-D/D RPM #1, FS-501 in MS-66, its around a $300 coin, but there are a dozen or more slabbed in that top grade. So the demand is somewhat limited.
              Recently we sold a 1951-D FS-521 (die chip in date), it was slabbed AU58 by PCGS and is the single finest example. We didn't want to undersell this coin so we placed a $600 reserve. The coin ended up selling for $1350 because the top registry set holders HAD to have it!

              I'm not sure how you would calculate that, any ideas?
              I think that those factors go into the baseline. A few TPG-related factors I can suggest are:

              - Is coin graded or raw
              - Grade assigned with details of color
              - Which grading company
              - Top pop vs how many better are known
              - Is it required for registry set

              Each of these factors would be either added to or multiplied with other baseline factors to create the final baseline value. The relative strength of the factors needs to be determined, and that's part of this discussion. Plus I'm sure there are other factors to consider...
              Builder of Custom Coin Photography Setups. PM me with your needs or visit http://macrocoins.com

              Comment

              • ray_parkhurst
                Paid Member

                • Dec 2011
                • 1855

                #8
                Originally posted by seal006
                Ray, just like with my thread, it is next to impossible to determine price history on raw coins as opposed to slabbed. The only real reference for raw coins is eBay and a few websites that still have the prices listed for sold items. You would need to come up with a formula for the amount of value a slab brings to a coin. Which was what I was trying to get to in my thread. I also feel like there would also need to be a formula for values per grade. Lets say you have a 1960-D RPM #1, and you feel it grades at a strong MS62, but if price history research only yeilds results for slabbed MS65 you would need both of the formulas I refer to in order to come up with an approximate value of your coin.
                For setting the baseline value, detailed price records really don't matter (IMO) since price records are market factors that don't go into the baseline as I've defined it.

                Now, value due to certification is definitely in the baseline (again IMO) so indeed a slabbing factor needs to be determined, along with the values per grade as you mention. So any suggestions on these?
                Builder of Custom Coin Photography Setups. PM me with your needs or visit http://macrocoins.com

                Comment

                • seal006
                  Member
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 2330

                  #9
                  Ray, I think you are on the right track. My approach to this matter was a bit more simplified. But I do feel that there is a way to formulate the approximate value of any given variety in any given grade. Every thing in the world that has value and is sold based on that value has a way for that value to be determined. You simply do not sell anything for a set price by pulling the value out of thin air.
                  "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

                  Comment

                  • seal006
                    Member
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 2330

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ray_parkhurst
                    For setting the baseline value, detailed price records really don't matter (IMO) since price records are market factors that don't go into the baseline as I've defined it.

                    Now, value due to certification is definitely in the baseline (again IMO) so indeed a slabbing factor needs to be determined, along with the values per grade as you mention. So any suggestions on these?
                    Your baseline has to have something tangible for value. It most certainly cannot be from price guides, because they are all over the place. I really feel realized prices is the only way.
                    "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

                    Comment

                    • seal006
                      Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 2330

                      #11
                      Perhaps you could use the value of the normal coin without the variety as your baseline.
                      "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

                      Comment

                      • ray_parkhurst
                        Paid Member

                        • Dec 2011
                        • 1855

                        #12
                        Originally posted by seal006
                        Perhaps you could use the value of the normal coin without the variety as your baseline.
                        Bingo. That is what I am also thinking is most useful. It's the only base price that makes sense. It then assumes the variety is worth at least as much as a comparable non-variety issue, and can only go up in value due to additional baseline and market factors due to the variety.
                        Builder of Custom Coin Photography Setups. PM me with your needs or visit http://macrocoins.com

                        Comment

                        • seal006
                          Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 2330

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ray_parkhurst
                          Bingo. That is what I am also thinking is most useful. It's the only base price that makes sense. It then assumes the variety is worth at least as much as a comparable non-variety issue, and can only go up in value due to additional baseline and market factors due to the variety.
                          Well don't stop now. Keep going with it.
                          "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

                          Comment

                          • amosamos16
                            Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 706

                            #14
                            I just stated in another thred at a coin show recently and saw a 97 ddo# 1, PCGS graded red 65 sell for $700 bucks. I was dumbfounded as I watched the transaction take place. I would not know how to price that variety, but I never could have guessed that much.

                            Comment

                            • seal006
                              Member
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 2330

                              #15
                              Originally posted by amosamos16
                              I just stated in another thred at a coin show recently and saw a 97 ddo# 1, PCGS graded red 65 sell for $700 bucks. I was dumbfounded as I watched the transaction take place. I would not know how to price that variety, but I never could have guessed that much.
                              Well that buyer was not very educated as to the value of that variety. Teletrade has auctioned off 7 of those in PCGS slabs MS65 Red condition. The highest one went for was $340 the lowest was $170. $700?? Wow, what a costly mistake.
                              "If Free Speech stops when someone gets offended, it is not really Free Speech."

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