1968-S Lincoln FULL and COMPLETE STEPS

[TJ1952]

Okay, I'll chime in. The hit has nothing to do with a full steps designation. The hit is post strike and the steps were complete at the time of the strike. Please don't become argumentive. There is a lot to learn on this site and unlike other forums we accept what others say unless it can be proven otherwise. In this case the full steps are there.

Hmmmm, not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to understand the full step theory on these Loncoln's. My understanding, all hits are post strike which means PMD. So what you're saying is that PMD does not apply here? I'm probably confusing this with the Jefferson steps. Sorry.

[Maineman750]

That's correct, PMD applies to the grade, but not the designation. Keep in mind that is a very small hit and may not even be considered by the grader.

[silver1985]

The way I interpret the Sheldon Grading Scale is that the terms "FULL and COMPLETE STEPS" is synonymous with "sharp strike", and is in a different category of the PMD factor, for grading activities.

[enamel7]

Jefferson steps would be the same. Full steps would be the initial strike, excluding PSD. Now if there is circulation wear there is no way to know what the original strike was.

[TJ1952]

Don't mean to drag this thing on or beat a dead horse. This is where I formulated my opinion on this step issue. It was posted by Lehigh96 over on "Coin Talk" back in 2009, so it's a bit dated. I highlighted what I thought was a significant point. But again, it's referring to Jefferson Nickel's.

What constitutes a Full Step Jefferson Nickel? This seems to be a very common question amongst collectors. And most who ask want photographs of the difference between FS and non FS step Jefferson Nickels. Hopefully this thread will answer all of your questions relating to the FS designation and I will provide examples for 6FS, 5FS, and non FS with clear photographs. All of the photographs in this thread were taken by myself and are of coins presently in my collection.

We should first start with a definition of the FS designation. I will refer to the PCGS OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION which defines it as:

Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Moniticello. Any major disturbance or interruption of these steps or lines, whether caused by contact, planchet problems, or another source, will result in the coin's not being designated FS. Only the slightest weakness on any step (line) is allowed for this designation. Some issues are almost never seen with Full Steps and may command a significant premium.

PCGS does not go on to explain the difference between 6FS and 5FS, but essentially it relates to the number of fully separated lines seen on the coin. The 6FS designation will have 5 distinct lines and the 5FS designation will have 4 distinct lines. Any coin without at least 4 fully separated lines will not be awared the FS designation.

It should also be noted that originally NGC did not award the FS designation to 5FS Jefferson's until February 16th, 2004. Before that date, NGC only used the FS designation for coins that showed 6FS. After that date they used two different designations, one for 6FS and 5FS. A coin in an older NGC holder with the FS designation equals 6FS. To my knowledge, PCGS always considered 5 or 6 full steps FS.

Now that we have a general knowledge of what to look for, let us see some examples of full step and non-full step Jefferson Nickels.

[BadThad]

I 100% disagree that PSD takes a Lincoln out of the FS designation. The criteria that I use is:

1) All steps fully formed
2) The step lines go all the way across
3) None of the steps are merged together

Lincolns are not Jeffersons, I don't much care what criteria they use for them. The steps on the Memorial are MUCH harder to strike, they are much finer. IMO, it's all about die state and strike.

[BadThad]

Here's one of the hard issues for FS, the 2006 Lincoln. This example is about as good as I could find in a 2006 and it BARELY make FS:

[TJ1952]

I 100% disagree that PSD takes a Lincoln out of the FS designation. The criteria that I use is:

1) All steps fully formed
2) The step lines go all the way across
3) None of the steps are merged together

Lincolns are not Jeffersons, I don't much care what criteria they use for them. The steps on the Memorial are MUCH harder to strike, they are much finer. IMO, it's all about die state and strike.

It's the criteria that YOU use. So this is just your opinion? Is the criteria you use an industry (TPG) standard? Is this criteria officially documented somewhere? You don't care what criteria "they" use for them. But you assume and expect everyone else to use your criteria? Why is that?

[enamel7]

Yes, nickels are different. I'm sorry, but I can't understand a rather new member, an admitted collector, debating this with a long time member. He originally wanted to know if there's a book to help him understand. I'm a member of that other site also and most of the members there just enjoy blowing air out their arse. Some, especially members from here know what they're talking about. Others there would just as soon argue with Mike Diamond!

[TJ1952]

Yes, nickels are different. I'm sorry, but I can't understand a rather new member, an admitted collector, debating this with a long time member. He originally wanted to know if there's a book to help him understand. I'm a member of that other site also and most of the members there just enjoy blowing air out their arse. Some, especially members from here know what they're talking about. Others there would just as soon argue with Mike Diamond!

Yes, that answers part of my question. Nickels are different and they have an industry standard just like FB or FSB Roosevelt's or Mercury's.

From what I see here, this is all personal opinion, correct? Where's the standard for LMC? Please tell me I'm not the first person asking this question. I would love to see FS designation on a LMC slab.

[enamel7]

You could ask them over at the other site and see what responses you get!

[TJ1952]

You could ask them over at the other site and see what responses you get!

I'm asking the question here because this is the Lincoln Cent Forum.

[enamel7]

Let's put it this way. Maybe the answer is there shouldn't be a FS designation. Maybe it should just be a higher grade. Only problem is someone came up with said designation and now it applies to the five cent piece. Far as I know there isn't an equivalent for the cent.

[TJ1952]

Let's put it this way. Maybe the answer is there shouldn't be a FS designation. Maybe it should just be a higher grade. Only problem is someone came up with said designation and now it applies to the five cent piece. Far as I know there isn't an equivalent for the cent.

Jeezzzz, did it have to take that long? Thank you. That's all I was looking for, an honest and intelligent explanation.

[BadThad]

It's the criteria that YOU use. So this is just your opinion? Is the criteria you use an industry (TPG) standard? Is this criteria officially documented somewhere? You don't care what criteria "they" use for them. But you assume and expect everyone else to use your criteria? Why is that?

Where did I insist other use my idea for FS? There are NO published criteria. The criteria are my own, invented by me some years ago to enlighten people to the fact that FS should be a designation for Lincolns. You may use whatever you want, it certainly doesn't matter to me.