1968-S Lincoln FULL and COMPLETE STEPS

[onecent1909]

BADTHAD has his opinion and TJ has his. I have mine.
we are all just discussing a subject that one day may be important, we can look back and say we tried to come up with a designation.
but for now... NGC,PCGS,ANACS,ICG, and most other TPG......EXCEPT FOR MAC ( Modern Approved Coins) do NOT have a designation at all
and I believe MACs designation is not correct and is bendable for their on use...
It was stated earlier that this is the case but not in so many words
lets keep this on topic Please

[TJ1952]

Where did I insist other use my idea for FS? There are NO published criteria. The criteria are my own, invented by me some years ago to enlighten people to the fact that FS should be a designation for Lincolns. You may use whatever you want, it certainly doesn't matter to me.

I stand corrected, you "do not" insist others use your idea for FS. However, a good number of your Lincoln's posted here and on CT are labeled and identified as FS. You seem to get a thrill out of identifying them as FS. You should add a disclaimer, stating this as your own criteria, invented by you some years ago and is your own personal opinion. So you invented it? You must have a patent for it or some kind of copyright? Bottom-line here: It's false advertising and misleading, don't you thing? You just don't like to be challenged on something you think you invented, correct?

If you feel that strong about about this full step thing, why don't you put all your years of research and "so-called" facts together in a paper and try to get it published. I would be the first one in line to support you.

[enamel7]

Why are you making a mountain out of a molehill? Did you join to learn and ask questions or did you come to argue terminology? If you don't agree with his opinion you aren't forced to use it. It's just like the word penny. This isn't the Lincoln penny forum, it's the Lincoln "Cent" forum. Cent is the correct terminology. We don't make a big deal about it if members call them pennies. We just try to educate and go from there. The main thing is to just relax and have fun. That's the main thing to take out of this hobby. Don't worry so much about terminology. Also do not use the term "double die". Lol!

[Maineman750]

I 100% disagree that PSD takes a Lincoln out of the FS designation. The criteria that I use is:

1) All steps fully formed
2) The step lines go all the way across
3) None of the steps are merged together

Lincolns are not Jeffersons, I don't much care what criteria they use for them. The steps on the Memorial are MUCH harder to strike, they are much finer. IMO, it's all about die state and strike.

Sounds like a common sense approach to me, we'll use these standards unless one of the big three TPGs publishes something otherwise.

In the mean time, I want no personal attacks on this site by anyone....OK guys?

[TJ1952]

Why are you making a mountain out of a molehill? Did you join to learn and ask questions or did you come to argue terminology? If you don't agree with his opinion you aren't forced to use it. It's just like the word penny. This isn't the Lincoln penny forum, it's the Lincoln "Cent" forum. Cent is the correct terminology. We don't make a big deal about it if members call them pennies. We just try to educate and go from there. The main thing is to just relax and have fun. That's the main thing to take out of this hobby. Don't worry so much about terminology. Also do not use the term "double die". Lol!

I'm not arguing, I'm discussing. You've been here long enough to know terminology is critical in this arena. However, I do appreciate your feedback and admire your on-going support of BadThad's criteria, inventions and facts.

[mustbebob]

I am glad I never got involved in this discussion. I have been in the business for over 45 years and have never even heard of a conversation about FS Lincolns...Only nickels. IMHO it matters very little except to a very few.

[BadThad]

This bud's for BadThad!

LOLOLOLOL!

[BadThad]

Sounds like a common sense approach to me, we'll use these standards unless one of the big three TPGs publishes something otherwise.

In the mean time, I want no personal attacks on this site by anyone....OK guys?

It's all good, I am NOT mad or upset. His words may have not been the best but I'm a 53 year old man who's been through a lot in life. In fact, I just lost my best friend last friday....this FS discussion is very trivial in my eyes. It's all about perspective. Lincoln collectors are a small group, I like everyone, including TJ, for bringing this topic to light.

[jfines69]

Ok... Now I get have to comment I like!!!

[TJ1952]

Group hug!

[jfines69]

Group hug!

[willbrooks]

Wow, I missed the whole discussion. Reading through the thread it seems like the crux was just over "official" recognition and definition of the full step for memorials, which now seems to be cleared up. I found myself agreeing with both parties, so I think we just wrapped up in semantics here. There is no official designation for this on Lincoln as of now and that it important for everyone to know that because we aim to educate here. On the other hand, our other purpose is to grow and expand our hobby. We SHOULD be trendsetters and this is great topic since it already exists in other denominations. I think we absolutely should continue to discuss and show these coins and I would bet that it starts to catch on!

[BadThad]

Wow, I missed the whole discussion. Reading through the thread it seems like the crux was just over "official" recognition and definition of the full step for memorials, which now seems to be cleared up. I found myself agreeing with both parties, so I think we just wrapped up in semantics here. There is no official designation for this on Lincoln as of now and that it important for everyone to know that because we aim to educate here. On the other hand, our other purpose is to grow and expand our hobby. We SHOULD be trendsetters and this is great topic since it already exists in other denominations. I think we absolutely should continue to discuss and show these coins and I would bet that it starts to catch on!

I bought the topic to light a few years ago just for that reason Will. It's been ignored for decades and I don't understand why. Nonetheless, it's been a criterion for me as a collector for awhile now. I do care about FS regardless of the TGP's or "popular opinion". Frankly, I'm very surprised the TPG's haven't caught on, they could create an additional pricing structure for coins graded FS. Why do stupid nickels get all the attention and fuss over FS? IMO, Lincolns are no different.

[TJ1952]

I bought the topic to light a few years ago just for that reason Will. It's been ignored for decades and I don't understand why. Nonetheless, it's been a criterion for me as a collector for awhile now. I do care about FS regardless of the TGP's or "popular opinion". Frankly, I'm very surprised the TPG's haven't caught on, they could create an additional pricing structure for coins graded FS. Why do stupid nickels get all the attention and fuss over FS? IMO, Lincolns are no different.

Stupid nickels? Yeah, and I can hear the nickel guys saying stupid pennies! The Jefferson's have been out there pushing almost 80 years. Who knows, maybe TPTB feel the LMC needs more time. You keep pushing from your end and I'll keep pushing from my end. Maybe we'll meet in the middle one day.

On a side note: I for one didn't like it when the mint converted to Memorials and I didn't like it when they converted to that (need I say) stupid shield's. JMHO. I don't ever know what that shield symbolizes or stands for. It doesn't even look American to me! As an American coin collector, I should probably know. I just never bothered to look it up. Those how feel obligated to tell me what it stands for, don't bother......I don't care.

[duece2seven]

My first thought on this is if the full step designation creates more interest and value in Memorials, then it's a good thing. Businesswise I would think the key to making this a viable addition will be convincing the TPGs to offer this as a free designation just like the Jeffersons and Mercury's. Otherwise I think it will be too cost and time prohibitive for the masses. Unless you are an expert grader, paying slabbing fees for a Memorial is already a gamble as it is. If the FS addition doesn't add enough juice profitwise for an amateur grader like myself to be wrong by a grade on a coin I would normally have never submitted, I think this will be a hard sell. For example, if an MS65 puts me in the money and an MS64 breaks me even, I might take a shot at it. Kind of like buying a crack out coin. Otherwise, I think this will end up with a very small number of submissions made strictly for full steps. Personally, if it gives me something else to hunt for during my normal search, I'm all for it!